New program, new problems.
- 05-30-2014, 05:46 PM
New program, new problems.
After almost two years on Cenegenics I moved over to a new program.
After about two weeks on the new program, my blood pressure was out of sight.
204 / 99 ! Rested and tried to calm down and it was still 177 / 93.
Stopped taking the Oxandrolone immediately and it came down over the next few days.
Diagnosed previously with mild hypertension 137 / 77. No medication prescribed.
New program includes:
T Cyp 180mg weekly (twice weekly pin)
Oxandrolone 25mg daily
Tamoxifen 20mg three times weekly
Anastrozole 1mg two times weekly
Vitamins and Aminos as well as DHEA daily
Really like this combo but need to bring down that BP!
- 05-30-2014, 05:55 PM
Yeah man, you should not be taking Tamoxifen and Anastrozole together because there is a risk of serious interactions including high BP and liver damage. Google can find that pretty easy. Why are you on this protocol? Also, what do your labs look like, because that is a lot of test.Black Lion Research Representative
- 05-30-2014, 11:39 PM
I only had a chance to glance at the lab results. There were like two pages full of different tests.
I did see:
Total Test 390
Free test 50ish
DHEA Sulfate 111
I also made a mistake with the calculations. 0.4mg of 200mg/ml Cyp gives 160mg weekly, not 180.
No real reason was given to me about what was prescribed other than it was to help with Estrogen.
I'll do some checking on those two. Maybe they are the cause of my high BP.
I found your post on DHEA and Pregnenolone.
I will switch to sub-lingual dose and see how that goes.
05-31-2014, 12:05 AM
Something is happening because if you are on 160mg a week, that is pretty low total test, high estrogen, and low DHEA. I don't know the ranges on your labs, but of the 2 I am aware of, that would be the case. I'd find out why they have you on the extras they do and there has to be a reason you are chewing up test like that.
Black Lion Research Representative
05-31-2014, 01:57 AM
Just to clear up.. I had been off of Test for about 8 weeks when the labs were taken.
They were taken when I signed up for this new program.
The labs were used to prescribe the course I am taking now.
05-31-2014, 07:49 AM
Well, that changes everything about your post and I have no idea why you didn't say that up front. You tell us your blood pressure was high and that you were taking Oxandrolone and then stopped, so blood pressure came down. Now your new protocol has that added back in and two other items that are known to raise BP when taken together. So you ask how to lower your blood pressure, yet have already determined one of the items raised it and plan to add in 2 additional.
Who are these quacks you are dealing with and why are you allowing this?
Black Lion Research Representative
05-31-2014, 09:20 PM
You're right, I wasn't very clear about the timeline or why I came to the conclusion that the Oxandrolone is what was causing my high BP.
To start, I'm 55 years old, 5' 10" and 220 pounds.
4 years ago I started feeling depressed, life wasnít worth living, libido was gone, energy was gone and overall felt blah.
A year before that I started on a serious exercise program. 5 to 6 days a week in the gym lifting with a touch of cardio for good measure. Very little results. My muscles firmed up and grew slightly, very disappointing for the amount of work I was doing. At the time I was more interested in gaining muscle than losing weight.
About that same time I met a woman. Beautiful with gray eyes, black hair, slender, sweet and loved sex. We hit it off very well but thatís when I started really feeling the effects of low libido. Imagine laying next to a woman, sexy body, sweet and loved to get frisky but you have no desire to romp in the hay with her.
This led me on a quest to find why I had no libido. I thought it was because I had no feelings for her but thatís not true. We hit it off very well and we both had feelings for each other.
I began by trying different supplements such as trib and some of the other non-effective things. Finally I hit on this DAA, HCGenerate and Forma-Stanzol combo that did exactly what I wanted. Libido was through the roof, energy was high, depression was gone within 4 days of starting that combo. This confirmed for me that I needed to bite the bullet and go for HRT. I began looking at different clinics etc and found a great post from a man who was on the Cenegenics program. He reported that he had to buy a new wardrobe twice in 6 months and he had regained the libido from his youth. Thatís what I wanted!
Few months later Iím in the Cenegenics office getting their induction testing and left with my first shot of T Cyp. Few months later my mental state was back to normal and even better, my libido was strong and I was happy except that I was still sitting at 220.
I went back to them and told them I was not losing any weight. They said stop eating so many carbs. I got into the website and used the diet app they have there. I was micro managing my diet to conform to their guidelines. I had already stopped eating junk food, drinking sodas etc. before I started their program so it wasnít a big change to lower my carb intake and get onto their protocol. Two months passed and Iím not down one pound! I go back to them and they said I need to do more cardio. Ok. I started cardio. 30 minutes per day on the bike or treadmill, heart rate at 130 to 135 for 20+ minutes, 5 days a week. Cut way back on the weights.
4 weeks later and Iím not one pound lighter, not only that but Iím feeling depressed, libido is much worse and I feel like crying at stupid things. Looking to my good friend Google I found that I probably have high Estro. I went to them with this and we looked at blood work. WoW! TT was 1400+ and Estro was 60+. I asked them to give me something to control the estro. They refused but recommended that I lower my T dose from 0.5mg to 0.4mg. I gladly lowered my dose and began looking on my own for ways to drop my Estro. I started on Stinging nettle root and other different OC AIís such as Erase, Even tried some Aromasin from the peptide sellers (worked but gave me very sore joints). Not much in the way of results. Finally I went to back to my unopened bottle of Forma-Stanzol. 4 to 5 pumps morning and night and I felt better. Libido started to return, mood was better and manly feeling. Dropped my dose to 0.3 and finally settled on 0.3 to 0.4 (randomly pulling the syringe back to about midway between 3 & 4) injected every 4 days.
Finally after almost two years I was tired of paying the high price for the Cenegenics program and basically just getting Test, syringes and some multi vitamins shipped to my door. Not to mention they had some trouble with the Test they were getting and it caused burning at the injection site and I donít think it was as effective as before. On the second month of this batch of Test they drop shipped a new bottle from a different manufacturer. Higher concentration at 250mg/ml. I never felt it was as effective as the original and after about 5 months, dropped the program all together.
This was November 2013. My last injection from their product was December 14th.
I began searching for another clinic and found the one Iím at now. I didnít get tested by them until late February.
I was in a hurry as I was leaving for overseas in early March so they rush shipped me their protocol which is:
Test 0.4ml, 2x weekly
Tamoxifen 20mg, 1 tab three times weekly (M,W,F)
Anastrozole 1mg, 1 tab twice weekly (T,T)
Oxandrolone 25mg, 1 cap daily
DHEA (50mg daily) and Vitamin D (10,000 IU daily) left over from Cenegenics.
I failed to pack the Tamoxifen and Anastrozole before I left for work in Africa. I resumed the Test injections at the same as before, 0.4mg every 4 days (easier for me to do it every 4 days) and started once a day with the Oxandrolone and supplements. After about two weeks I started noticing that my blood pressure felt high. I went to the medic and she took my pressure at 204 / 99. I had just walked up 4 flights of stairs and told her that. I rested in her office for about 15 minutes and she took it again. 177 / 93. I stopped taking the Oxandrolone as it was the only thing I was doing different from before and over the next three days I felt my BP coming down. 141 / 82 after three days. Still high but I didn't have the headaches and it was dropping slightly each day. Two weeks later she checked it before I returned to the US. My BP was 131 / 79.
In looking back over my life I feel my estrogen has always been high and test low so I was anxious to try the anti-estrogen protocol.
Today marks 16 days on the anti - estrogen protocol (minus the Oxandrolone) and my BP is fine at 129 / 77 this morning. I don't feel any side effects from it other than what I would expect. Strong libido, nipples are normal and I feel manly.
I read that Oxandrolone or Anavar is great for reducing fat. That is my second goal, to get to 185 ish. That's why I'm asking about the Oxandrolone. Maybe cut back to 20mg every two days. Maybe it's just not for me. I don't know. Looking for someone who may have taken it before and has some advice.
I will be back in the clinic on Tuesday and will bring it up with him.
In my labs I saw that my DHEA is low. That's why I wanted to give your DHEA & Pregnonolone combo a try.
Honestly, Cenegenics sent me DHEA monthly, capsule form at 50mg per day. I did not research DHEA and actually thought it was something they added to make me feel I was getting my money's worth.
So at this point I trust the doctor to give me the right prescription meds and not something thatís going to kill me.
If you say the combo will cause high BP I will research that and bring it up to the doctor in the clinic. He's a great guy, gung-ho and friendly. The clinic is packed every time I go there.
My personal feelings are that E2 is limiting me as far as weight. Why do I say this? My legs are pretty well ripped. My arms are not fat but my belly is there and out in front. Maybe I've bought into the hype about adipose tissue producing female hormones thing but I think there is some truth to it and until I can rid myself of this large deposit of adipose tissue I will have problems with E2. (I know some of the fat is Visceral and I read that it requires even more intense workouts to eliminate Visceral fat)
Anyway.. this is turning into a book.
05-31-2014, 09:44 PM
Sounds like you needed to get a little off your chest, so I'm glad you were able to vent your frustration over your experience. I'd be pretty annoyed by now. I'm interested in your story, so I will read this a bit more when I get a chance.
Black Lion Research Representative
07-08-2014, 07:10 AM
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