43 yr old, trt, swollen nips
- 04-15-2014, 05:54 AM
43 yr old, trt, swollen nips
I'm using 110mg Andropen every 5days. Self medicating trt, 43 yr old with symptoms of trt. But I'm having estro issues now. With swollen nipples. I was using a full 1ml/275mg a week and was great for a few weeks. Then issues showed up. I've lowered dose to 110mg/5 days. I've used cyp T similar dose with no issues. 100mg/wk. Started taking Pro Erase a few days ago. Don't know if it will resolve this. Noticed libido was shot as well. Do I need to lower the dose and or frequency. Seems like there's a "sweet spot" for dosing. Not really familiar with Andropen but know there's a mix of slow and fast esters. Couldn't find any cyp at the time and this was cheap and available from reliable source. Any input?
- 04-15-2014, 07:06 AM
- 04-15-2014, 08:40 AM
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04-15-2014, 08:52 AM
Erase will not do anything for you. Several of us have run labs and it is crap for estrogen control.
04-15-2014, 03:59 PM
Doesn't Erase pro have foremestane in it? Foremeron is a transdermal product. What about an oral version?
04-15-2014, 04:09 PM
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04-15-2014, 11:20 PM
Foremestane must be stronger than armistane. I'll be getting some foremestane really soon. I've got access to some letrozole... like immediately. To get things under control?? I'll adjust dose to from 110mg/5days down to 82.5mg. Seems the 5 day mark is best with andropen esters. Still not in sweet spot.
04-15-2014, 11:39 PM
Actually started out 1cc/10days- 275mg. Down to 110mg/5days. Going to 82.5mg/5days next. Stay there and see how I feel. Only have andropen because couldn't find cypionate at the time. Will be switching back asap. I know 100mg/week is perfect for me without anything else.
04-19-2014, 01:11 PM
You shouldnt have to drop your test dose down if your comfortable at that dose.
You for 100% certain should not need letro on HRT. This is like killing a gnat with a tank. The sides of real letro are brutal for most people.
Formeron at 2 pumps should do the trick. If its bad start at 3-4 pumps for a week and smash the estro down to a manageable level then maintain at 2.
Lots of guys using Formeron for HRT. Years long use.
I also know of 2 Drs who recommend Formeron to their patients.
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04-20-2014, 08:26 AM
Having estrogen issues I've NEVER encountered before. Using Letro short term to get estrogen under control. Will be using Foremeron regularly. But I'm not using this andropen forever. Changing some things up for now though. I'm not trying to get big but just maintain and feel youthful. Got 2 bottles of 5alpha test. DHT precursor. I know how awesome I felt on PP's Androhard V3. So I'm giving this stuff a try. DHT is the ultimate for HRT in my opinion. You don't get swolen and retain a bunch of water. You do feel awesome, confidence, strength, endurance, sexual prowess of 21yr old, lean and hard. Very easy to rebound from with little shutdown and no estrogen conversion. Little issues with hair loss actually. So reducing andropen to 55mg/3.5 days (Sunday AM- Wednesday PM). Time will tell now.
04-24-2014, 06:38 PM
Docs got me on 200mg test a week and hcg also take estrogen blocker 1mg half a pill day of shot and half on the 4th day. Anastrazole
So far no problems or side affects that I can tell been on this protocol 4 weeks now and am just now starting to feel a little better and get some energy back. Wantingto get back to lifting n see if the test helps me out any? What u guys think?
04-25-2014, 12:11 AM
Swollen nips = real AI. Such as Arimidex.
FYI, 200mg of test plus HCG plus AI is equivalent to more than just 200mg of full test. Probably more like 300mg equivalent. Some of the steroid cycles from the 70s were 400mg and people got huge.
04-25-2014, 02:52 PM
04-26-2014, 03:54 PM
So I'm down to 68mg Andropen every 3.5 days. Erase Pro twice a day and .5mg letrozole daily. Alpha test -5 (DHT) three times daily. Nips are shrinking, tissue behind nips actually. The DHT is really the best thing. Should be able to switch to Foremeron along with the Alpha test to control estrogen issues. I know I went right past the sweet spot but haven't killed my libido completely, so going to back off the letrozole to .25mg/day and quit Erase til Foremeron gets here. The DHT is a wonderful thing. This RDe version works but is weak dosage.
04-26-2014, 04:06 PM
I feel pretty good at this dose of Andropen/ Alpha test (dht) and it won't continue to swell my breast tissue. Switch from letrozole to foremeron should make it even better.
04-28-2014, 11:27 AM
You probably want to look into a legit AI like Anastrole or Exemestane at this point. While some good OTC options exist like those mentioned or Reversitol V2, Triazole, etc. they will not hold a candle to what an AI like these can do. Letrozole is something you want to avoid if you can, but it wouldn't be bad to keep some handy just in case. Because it will certainly take care of the problem.
04-28-2014, 04:54 PM
A real benefit of HCG is that it will prevent testicular atrophy. I do not think we should ignore the aesthetics of that consideration.
Now to address the nip issue.
you may need to address any side effects due to elevated estrogen levels which have occurred. I do not use an AI initially, even when E2 is elevated, because some patients will actually see a drop in estrogen over baseline on follow-up. We would have otherwise added an unnecessary (and relatively expensive) medication. Should the patient develop any “nipple issues” secondary to accelerating serum androgen levels and/or elevated estrogen, you cannot start them on a SERM right away because doing so will invalidate your estradiol assay at follow-up. Of note, males can experience said “nipple issues” even while estrogen levels are within physiological range, due to mere changes in hormone levels. A drug of the class SERM is treatment of choice in this case, until symptoms subside. I do not favor SERM’s long term, even though they have been shown to elevate T levels, because we simply do not know what they do long term. Reassure your patient he will not grow breasts in one month.
If a patient has “nipple issues”, even while estrogen is within normal range, then add a SERM, emergently. I prefer Nolvadex over Clomid. Clomid often induces untoward visual effects (i.e. “tracers”), and can cause emotional lability by virtue of its estrogen agonistic effects at the more peripheral (emotion) brain sites. Nolvadex is then initiated, should they experience nipple swelling or sensitivity, at 40mg per day until the symptoms abate, and then taper down 10mg every 10 days to discontinue.
My TRT male patients who suffer E2 elevations above the top of normal range are placed on between 0.25 and 0.5mg Arimidex every one to third day, depending upon the specific situation. It is possible to cut the tiny 1mg tabs into quarters, but here a compounded prep, to convenient dosing, makes a lot of sense. A month later I recheck E2, (as subsequently lowered SHBG will affect subjective response as well) and make further adjustment if necessary. Always remember it is important to not lower estrogen too far.
So now let’s say we have the patient in a state where Total Testosterone is in the upper quartile of “normal” range, Bioavailable Testosterone is nicely elevated, with E2 safely in check. At this point I offer the patient my HCG protocol. I add in 250-500IU of HCG, on day five, and day six, of the injection week, for those who use the IM injection. In other words, the two days prior to their test cyp shot. For those using a transdermal delivery system, 100-250IU SC (HCG is best administered subcutaneously) every one to third day. For the IM patients, this compensates for the drop off in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the test cyp.
Patients nearly always report they feel dramatically better once the HCG regimen is initiated (and they were properly tuned up on testosterone before they started it). HCG, as a LH analog, increases the activity of the P450 SCC enzyme, which converts CHOL to pregnenolone. Thus all three hormonal pathways are stimulated in patients who may be either entirely, or very nearly, HPTA suppressed. It is my belief this may be a factor in the heightened sense of well-being my patients report throughout the week—far in excess of what a nominal dose of HCG would produce by virtue of induced testosterone production.
Many TRT practitioners add in HCG for a short course every few months, to re-stimulate the testes. My opinion is that it is far better to keep them up to form and function all along the way. The physicians who intermittently use HCG also use it as a “break” in TRT, much the same way hormonally-supplemented athletes manage the typical anabolic steroid cycle. TRT should not be “cycled”. Once I get my patients properly tuned up, I want them to stay that way. They also erroneously believe this allows the HPTA to recover, when it clearly does not. The HCG-induced testosterone production is every bit as suppressive of the HPTA as the TRT, and the supplemented testosterone is still at suppressive serum levels during that time, anyway.
A good Dr will nearly always add HCG, DHEA and pregnenolone to the TRT regimen. Inserting these hormones helps restore natural hormonal pathways, "backfilling" them, if you will, once we have suppressed the HPTA with TRT. We will probably never know all the intermediary steps in these pathways, much less all the actions of each substance upon the body. In my professional opinion, this is the current state-of-the-art in TRT medicine.
04-28-2014, 04:57 PM
Sorry went a little over board with info.
04-28-2014, 05:16 PM
Wait a minute- you are a doctor? Unless I read your post wrong, that is what I picked up.
04-28-2014, 08:06 PM
04-29-2014, 09:46 AM
Not an endo just many people I have talked about this they talk to their endo or what not and all agree with suggestions. I should have been a Dr though, Geez be more financially sound lol.
Just ex athlete with medical back ground due to being an ex owner of a supplement company who had to learn all this stuff and designed nutrition and workouts as well.
04-29-2014, 09:50 AM
I see where it could be mistaken now I said My TRT male patient should have said Many.
04-29-2014, 10:13 AM
Yeah, that is what threw me off.
We have a similar background. And I am basically the nutritionist and personal trainer for everyone we know, but I just don't get paid for it.
04-29-2014, 02:03 PM
Does ANYONE know where to get the REAL 5 alpha hydroxy Laxogenin- the miracle supplement that the nutcase scientist Mark Theirman came up with in the 90"s?
05-04-2014, 03:40 AM
05-11-2014, 03:20 PM
Currently: 68.5mg andropen Sunday mornings and 68.5mg andropen Wednesday evenings. 5 alpha test (dht) 3x day and was taking .2mg letrozole daily but reducing dose and switching to something else. The nipples are smaller and should stop swelling with use of dht but think I need something specific to get rid of them. I know from the old days that Nolva is the one standby for gyno specifically. The dht should help with typical estrogen issues we'll see. I feel good, better than recently as far as moods, libido, motivation and energy. Foremeron seems to be the thing to use but transdermal... maybe a SERM like Toremifene? I personally would use DHT for HRT if I could get it. If you not susceptible to MPB (male pattern baldness) there's no sides at all. It won't get your muscles really big but you will maintain a anabolic state without any water retention. Strength and endurance but no pump like typical gear which can inhibit your endurance esp forearms. Your confidence will go thru the roof as well as your morning wood. Libido is off the chain literally. Your female friend(s) will appreciate it. Ultimate male enhancement. Androsterone, epiandrosterone.... booyah!
05-11-2014, 03:22 PM
Oops little tangent there. Hows those Forerunner Labs Alpha Hard cycles coming along?
05-13-2014, 10:28 AM
Just don't use Letro for a long period of time it can be a libido killer.
05-21-2014, 08:04 AM
Yup. I'm tapering now. The dht precurser is working. With my test dose at about 140mg a week and addition of dht estrogen seems to be much better. Still need to fine tune things.. going to round up some proviron and masteron to stack with my protocol. My older age has brought achy joints that glucosamine just won't relieve alone. Deca puts fluid into joints and usually relieves achy joints
05-21-2014, 10:42 AM
53 here, For joint issues, I recommend iForce Joint Help on top of the glucosamine. I'm only taking 1 cap of the Joint Help per day.
05-25-2014, 09:30 PM
Looking into it. Sounds like great product
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