Should I be using an AI?

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

I started a 75mg/day Helladrol, 250iu HCG cycle last week while on my 140mg/week TRT.
I have been reading around and it seems like everyone who is running Test even at TRT doses is on an AI. I have always thought I should only use an AI if I started to get symptoms of gyno.
I cant ask my endo for lab work because I am hoping to get him to bump my rx again. He started me at 200mg EOW and we have boosted it to 140mg/week. I guess I could go pay for my own labs but im hoping to avoid the extra expense. I would like to learn how to feel if I need to adjust my estrogen levels. I have read about monitoring your morning wood, but I have also read that too high AND too low mean no wood. So if my wood goes away how do I know if it is too high or too low?

 

[pappybay]

Labs rule everything.

http://www.privatemdlabs.com/?gclid=CNj-vKrO0LgCFatj7AodtV0A2g

Some people need and AI or SERM and others don;t. There is no general answer.

I would guess your E2 will be elevated pretty good on that mix. Is the HCG EOD, E3D?

 

[kisaj]

Don't know where you are reading, but most people on TRT and at the proper dosage/frequency, are NOT on an AI. IMO, taking an AI is a lazy way to address e2 without taking the time to determine how much you need with supporting labs. I'd venture to guess that very few people actually need it after dialing everything in.

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

What gets dialed in, besides adjusting free test levels by increasing and decreasing doasge? I thought E2 was something our bodies determined on their own and if we were unhappy with those levels we dialed them in with an AI. I dont understand.

 

[Stupes]

The hcg complicates things. On 140mg of test by itself the vast majority of guys will not need an AI. But hcg causes spikes in test and e2. I don't know why guys are still doing hcg while on TRT.......just to keep your balls from shrinking a little? Not worth the headache of hcg and AIs and e2

 

[kisaj]

What gets dialed in, besides adjusting free test levels by increasing and decreasing doasge? I thought E2 was something our bodies determined on their own and if we were unhappy with those levels we dialed them in with an AI. I dont understand.

Many of us have moved to more frequent injections at lower doses to keep test and e2 levels stable. e2 goes hand in hand with test and some are more prone to being affected, but almost everyone can help the situation by determining what protocol works best for their bodies. I don't know anyone outside of a few on here that use an AI on TRT and they have no issues.

 

[kisaj]

The hcg complicates things. On 140mg of test by itself the vast majority of guys will not need an AI. But hcg causes spikes in test and e2. I don't know why guys are still doing hcg while on TRT.......just to keep your balls from shrinking a little? Not worth the headache of hcg and AIs and e2

Wow, someone else that finally agrees with me on this topic.

 

[napalm]

I started a 75mg/day Helladrol, 250iu HCG cycle last week while on my 140mg/week TRT.
I have been reading around and it seems like everyone who is running Test even at TRT doses is on an AI. I have always thought I should only use an AI if I started to get symptoms of gyno.
I cant ask my endo for lab work because I am hoping to get him to bump my rx again. He started me at 200mg EOW and we have boosted it to 140mg/week. I guess I could go pay for my own labs but im hoping to avoid the extra expense. I would like to learn how to feel if I need to adjust my estrogen levels. I have read about monitoring your morning wood, but I have also read that too high AND too low mean no wood. So if my wood goes away how do I know if it is too high or too low?

We don't use 'wood' to assess e2. Labs, labs, labs. Are you injecting the 140 - which is at the high end of trt doses, once per week? If so, that's why you're feeling the effects of what you think is e2. What you're feeling are the peaks and troughs of injecting once per week - an archaic way of doing trt.

I guarantee you that if you took the time (and labs) to experiment with more frequent injections you'd be on half the dose you're on now. Kisaj is correct, people are just lazy and don't take the time to figure out what's best dose for THEM, not some cookie cutter approach to trt - once a week at X dose, or worse, every other week.

At 140/week I'd be concerned w a lot of labs, not just e2. Look at your hgb and hct. When I was at 150/week - before I learned how to do trt, I was a stroke waiting to happen according to my endo...

 

[GO_OUTSIDE!]

Thanks for the replies. I guess ill go get some labs done from private md. The female hormone panel checks total test and estradiol among other things. Is that going to cover it? And what is the magic number I am shooting for?

 

[pappybay]

We don't use 'wood' to assess e2. Labs, labs, labs. Are you injecting the 140 - which is at the high end of trt doses, once per week? If so, that's why you're feeling the effects of what you think is e2. What you're feeling are the peaks and troughs of injecting once per week - an archaic way of doing trt.

I guarantee you that if you took the time (and labs) to experiment with more frequent injections you'd be on half the dose you're on now. Kisaj is correct, people are just lazy and don't take the time to figure out what's best dose for THEM, not some cookie cutter approach to trt - once a week at X dose, or worse, every other week.

At 140/week I'd be concerned w a lot of labs, not just e2. Look at your hgb and hct. When I was at 150/week - before I learned how to do trt, I was a stroke waiting to happen according to my endo...

Damn good comments. Nothing comes without risk, nothing. With great reward comes great risk, in most cases. It is sad how many people end up here because their physician is simply uneducated on how to manage TRT and to teach patients how related body systems work.

 

[pappybay]

Thanks for the replies. I guess ill go get some labs done from private md. The female hormone panel checks total test and estradiol among other things. Is that going to cover it? And what is the magic number I am shooting for?

Total Test
Free Test
Estrogen
Estradiol
SHBG
LH and FSH

Don't worry about the "magic" number for now. Just get the labs done. IF you have the $$, get a thyroid panel done as well.