Looking for another route ... starting to lose hope

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  1. Yup! hehehe it's good for us.

    By the way, I uploaded a video of myself exercising. Check me out folks please!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mso3Y7_9GfI


  2. Quote Originally Posted by v1rt View Post
    Yup! hehehe it's good for us.

    By the way, I uploaded a video of myself exercising. Check me out folks please!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mso3Y7_9GfI

    Very nicely done, good angles and perfect music. I applaud your effort. Squats may be a little high but I drop to just short of parallel anyway.

    ON balance, VERY GOOD JOB on the vid.
    •   
       


  3. Thank you pappybay!

    Here is an update. I met my doctor today. I mentioned to him the different test I wanted. He said that the others test I mentioned are not covered by my insurance and would costs thousands. So only lipid, cbc, liver, kidney, testosterone and thyroid are included.

    I hope I'll know the results tomorrow.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by v1rt View Post
    Thank you pappybay!

    Here is an update. I met my doctor today. I mentioned to him the different test I wanted. He said that the others test I mentioned are not covered by my insurance and would costs thousands. So only lipid, cbc, liver, kidney, testosterone and thyroid are included.

    I hope I'll know the results tomorrow.

    I hate to telll you this but your Doc is just wrong. If you are going to use AAS, it is mandatory in my opinion you check E2 (estradiol). You need to establish a baseline. Look, just wait for the test results and post them here.

    If you go on TRT, you need to get E2, SHBG baselines BEFORE you start. If you are using Labcorp or Quest, you can get a cash price. These tests are very cost effective. You can also use privateMDlabs: http://www.privatemdlabs.com/

    Also, if he is the one guiding you on TRT, you better start learning quick. Any Doc that does not monitor estrogen levels DOES NOT KNOW what they are doing, period, end of discussion.

    I hope your lab results prove a clear path to help you with your dilemma. Make sure you post results and the outcome with your Doc here and hang in there, you will find a solution if you are persistent.

  5. will post it once I receive it.

    It's his own nurse who extracted blood today. I didn't go to Quest. I didn't get when you said I can get a cash price.

  6. Got my results today
    Thyroid .9
    Testosterone - 345 - he said 200 was the normal.

    All other test like cholesterol were normal.

    What are your thoughts?

    That's all he told me.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by v1rt View Post
    Got my results today
    Thyroid .9
    Testosterone - 345 - he said 200 was the normal.

    All other test like cholesterol were normal.

    What are your thoughts?

    That's all he told me.

    I assume you mean total test is 345. That is low in my opinion for your age and goals. Your doctor is a MORON.

    His decision making tree-----> is test in range?

    Yes -- nothing to do
    No -- damn, what do I do now?

    First:
    Is your diet in good condition. Don't say you think so! Download myfitnesspal (iphone or use on the web) and track your calories for a week. It is free.
    Read as much as you can here RE TRT, the relationship between Test, Estrogen and the HTPA, SHBG, LH and TSH. You can also Google these terms. Read for hours. Do this for one week.

    After the week, look at your food. Is it really in good shape? High protein, mid carbs and mid fats? Cay 60% protein, 20% carbs, 20% fats? If not, fix the issue, consistently. You need to be honest with yourself on this matter.


    THIS IS MY OPINION> OTHERS WILL HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS I CAN ASSURE YOU.
    Second, once you know what you are talking about, you go back to your doc and tell him you want to discuss TRT. You want your Total Test Levels in the 850-900 range and free test in the 300-350 range and you E2 in the 20-30 range. and you want to start at 150-180 MG per week and self inject (2 times per week). Your also want a script for anastrozole (comes in 1 MG tablets) at a dose of 2.5 MG per week (a little higher than you will probably need). If you go in half informed, you are screwed.

    You could start with angrogel but for your goals I suggest you go straight to injections.

    It is your money and he can either agree or not. If he agrees, great. If not, smile, thank him and go find another Doc, preferably a TRT doc. DO NOT GIVE UP.
    When I started all my labs looked good except Total Test, which was at 408, above yours and I was at age 51.

    Now, relax, get busy and learn. I mean really learn.

  8. I actually registered to this forum while checking out the site because of this thread...

    v1rt, I believe your solution may be multi-factorial. In this topic, you have indirectly stated that you need serious nutritional assistance by not knowing the number of calories, or what percentages you are eating. This also translates into poor food choices typically. I have seen many people who honestly believe that they are eating optimally, but in reality they are far from it. You did seem to post a relatively detailed description of your typical diet, so it does state that you have a good grasp. pappybay hit on this in his last post as well.

    Recommendation #1 of mine would be to do a serious look at your nutrition again with exactly what you eat and how it affects you from energy to metabolism. This, as many already know is probably the single most important factor in bodybuilding / training.

    Recommendation #2: kenpoengineer touched on an item which would also assist with your goal. Using a heart rate monitor, or even one of many "Caloric expenditure" devices will assist with your daily calculations to fine tune your training for maximal gains. Not a complete necessity, as many pros don't use these devices, but many elite soldiers / military do like to use them for optimizing their ability.

    Now here is where the topic shifts from exercise / sports physiology into medical science…

    You need to check the labs reference range for testosterone. Most non-medical people are not aware that testosterone , thyroid and many other Endocrinological lab tests are notoriously difficult to process. Many labs perform these tests, but their results are invalid. Check the lab's ranges for your age group and gender. I would also check with an Endocrinologist on what lab he/she uses to have their testing done for guidance. You did not say when you took the lab test. Testosterone needs to be drawn in the morning. It is time dependent. Your levels change throughout the day.

    Having said that, giving your lab choice was a respectable one, and your 345 was "total testosterone" in ng/dL, your testosterone level is low. You should be around 650ng/dL with a std deviation of around 150, or so, minimally. Normal ranges can go as high as 1100-1200ng/dL, but as you age, don't expect these numbers. So you should be at your lowest 500ng/dL.


    Your "thyroid" of 0.9, again, I am assuming it was your TSH (thyroid stimulating factor) which is a quick "spot check" way of checking the thyroid axis, would be in the normal range for most labs taking into consideration what I said above. Typical ranges are from 0.4-6 with a goal of 1.0-2.5mIU/L being considered optimal by medical science and Endocrinologists. Typically to really check your thyroid, a free thyroxine (FT4) should be obtained to accurately gauge the thyroid axis.

    I would like to clarify the required tests to get your information and get to the point…
    (Just looking for hypogonadism / low testosterone, not other causes which need to be looked at as well)
    1st visit to MD: Total testosterone, Free testosterone, TSH, FT4

    2nd visit to MD (with your low total testosterone level): FSH and if he wants to save a trip inhibin B.

    That's it. This will tell you absolutely if you have hypogonadism and low testosterone. Testosterone is synthesized in the Leydig cells of the testicles and a very small amount converted in adipose tissue (fat)(this is why you see really fat women with mustaches sometimes…that and PCOS).

    Decision to treat, unfortunately is not as easy as this. Testosterone supplementation is directly related to if you're at risk. You physician will have to counsel you on these risks and check some more blood work. (CBC, CMP, Lipid profile and baseline PSA). IF these ALLOW you to commence treatment then you will need close monitoring with lab draws monthly at first, then 3 months, then it will relax after that. Your first year will be spent in labs and doctor's offices though.

    Testosterone is nothing to play with. Get a good physician to help you. (Sorry, I don't like to bash, but I am guessing by your post's wording, your physician is a Family Practitioner. There are good ones, but their training is very different then the rest of the medical field.) OK…tired of typing. Questions, just ask. I'll see what I can do to help.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by TopDoc72 View Post
    I actually registered to this forum while checking out the site because of this thread...

    v1rt, I believe your solution may be multi-factorial. In this topic, you have indirectly stated that you need serious nutritional assistance by not knowing the number of calories, or what percentages you are eating. This also translates into poor food choices typically. I have seen many people who honestly believe that they are eating optimally, but in reality they are far from it. You did seem to post a relatively detailed description of your typical diet, so it does state that you have a good grasp. pappybay hit on this in his last post as well.
    Yup. Been reading tons of info about diet for 1.5 years now.

    Recommendation #1 of mine would be to do a serious look at your nutrition again with exactly what you eat and how it affects you from energy to metabolism. This, as many already know is probably the single most important factor in bodybuilding / training.
    Will do. I would like to mention though that my energy is upto the roof. Foods I eat are oatmeal, brown and white rice, avocados, broccoli, plain greek yogurt, cottage cheese, fish(tilapia/tuna), fruits, boiled egg white(6x a day), pasta, sweet potato, I've reduced bread, ice cream, and many more.

    After workout, I make a protein shake(1 cup milk, 1 whole banana, 1/2 cup dry oats, 2 tbsp peanut butter, 1 cup strawberry, 1 scoop protein powder(ON, ISO-100, etc)

    Recommendation #2: kenpoengineer touched on an item which would also assist with your goal. Using a heart rate monitor, or even one of many "Caloric expenditure" devices will assist with your daily calculations to fine tune your training for maximal gains. Not a complete necessity, as many pros don't use these devices, but many elite soldiers / military do like to use them for optimizing their ability.
    This one, I'm still confuse as to how monitoring our heart rate will help in our gains.

    Now here is where the topic shifts from exercise / sports physiology into medical science…

    You need to check the labs reference range for testosterone. Most non-medical people are not aware that testosterone , thyroid and many other Endocrinological lab tests are notoriously difficult to process. Many labs perform these tests, but their results are invalid. Check the lab's ranges for your age group and gender. I would also check with an Endocrinologist on what lab he/she uses to have their testing done for guidance. You did not say when you took the lab test. Testosterone needs to be drawn in the morning. It is time dependent. Your levels change throughout the day.
    I asked my doctor the other day to send me a copy of the results. However, I also found another thread that we can do lab work via Labcorps for $50.

    Having said that, giving your lab choice was a respectable one, and your 345 was "total testosterone" in ng/dL, your testosterone level is low. You should be around 650ng/dL with a std deviation of around 150, or so, minimally. Normal ranges can go as high as 1100-1200ng/dL, but as you age, don't expect these numbers. So you should be at your lowest 500ng/dL.
    Got it. I'm far from the ideal value.

    Your "thyroid" of 0.9, again, I am assuming it was your TSH (thyroid stimulating factor) which is a quick "spot check" way of checking the thyroid axis, would be in the normal range for most labs taking into consideration what I said above. Typical ranges are from 0.4-6 with a goal of 1.0-2.5mIU/L being considered optimal by medical science and Endocrinologists. Typically to really check your thyroid, a free thyroxine (FT4) should be obtained to accurately gauge the thyroid axis.
    He told me the range is 0.4 to 4. I think.

    I would like to clarify the required tests to get your information and get to the point…
    (Just looking for hypogonadism / low testosterone, not other causes which need to be looked at as well)
    1st visit to MD: Total testosterone, Free testosterone, TSH, FT4

    2nd visit to MD (with your low total testosterone level): FSH and if he wants to save a trip inhibin B.

    That's it. This will tell you absolutely if you have hypogonadism and low testosterone. Testosterone is synthesized in the Leydig cells of the testicles and a very small amount converted in adipose tissue (fat)(this is why you see really fat women with mustaches sometimes…that and PCOS).

    Decision to treat, unfortunately is not as easy as this. Testosterone supplementation is directly related to if you're at risk. You physician will have to counsel you on these risks and check some more blood work. (CBC, CMP, Lipid profile and baseline PSA). IF these ALLOW you to commence treatment then you will need close monitoring with lab draws monthly at first, then 3 months, then it will relax after that. Your first year will be spent in labs and doctor's offices though.
    I had cbc, lipid profile done as well. He told me all the values I have are all optimum.

    Testosterone is nothing to play with. Get a good physician to help you. (Sorry, I don't like to bash, but I am guessing by your post's wording, your physician is a Family Practitioner. There are good ones, but their training is very different then the rest of the medical field.) OK…tired of typing. Questions, just ask. I'll see what I can do to help.
    You are right. He is a family practitioner. I don't know where I can find a good doctor in my area.

  10. Can I be at risk if I alter my testostorone? I am a very healthy person, very athletic too.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by v1rt View Post
    Can I be at risk if I alter my testostorone? I am a very healthy person, very athletic too.
    Anytime you put something into your body you assume risk, including test. If you take responsibility for educating yourself (like you are doing), understand the relationship between

    Gear
    Nutrition
    Training
    Supplements
    A Lab-driven approach

    you will significantly limit your downside risk. If you read threads here, the biggest risk is typically gyno-related problems and disappointment regarding results. In both of those circumstances, the posters typically have NOT understood one or more of the areas above (or they understand them and do not have discipline to properly manage).

    I encourage you to get heavily involved and be smart about your choices. Reread my post #37, set up a plan and execute. Don't look back. We are here to help you.


  12. Quote Originally Posted by pappybay View Post
    Anytime you put something into your body you assume risk, including test. If you take responsibility for educating yourself (like you are doing), understand the relationship between

    Gear
    Nutrition
    Training
    Supplements
    A Lab-driven approach

    you will significantly limit your downside risk. If you read threads here, the biggest risk is typically gyno-related problems and disappointment regarding results. In both of those circumstances, the posters typically have NOT understood one or more of the areas above (or they understand them and do not have discipline to properly manage).

    I encourage you to get heavily involved and be smart about your choices. Reread my post #37, set up a plan and execute. Don't look back. We are here to help you.

    Got it!

    About "gyno-related problems", is it the same as the one I had when I was 13 until 28? It's a hard ball under my nipples and it was painful. My friends always tell me to wear bra. LOL! hahaha! However, I didn't have any fats in my chest because I was super skinny. My son has this hard ball now and same as me, super skinny. LOL!

  13. I would look more into the low testosterone. This is critical for muscle mass.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by v1rt View Post
    Got it!

    About "gyno-related problems", is it the same as the one I had when I was 13 until 28? It's a hard ball under my nipples and it was painful. My friends always tell me to wear bra. LOL! hahaha! However, I didn't have any fats in my chest because I was super skinny. My son has this hard ball now and same as me, super skinny. LOL!
    Sounds like it to me regarding your past.

    You or your son can still get the Sub Q fat even if you are not fat or don;t eat a lot of fats. It is just how the body functions. . I have a small one and I can assure you I am not fat.

    :-)
  

  
 

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