quick trt questions

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    quick trt questions


    Do guys that go on trt actually see any anabolic effects? I've heard the typical dosages are around 140 of test, but can vary. Just curious if one can actually gain decent lbm from these dosages. What about topical gels and patches - if you're working out regularly and eating decent, will any of this help put on any significant muscle mass?

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    The goal is to put you in normal ranges. If you are in normal range, working out regularly and eating right why would you not see gains in muscle mass? Will you see results like taking 500mg a week along with an oral jumpstart? Not quite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    The goal is to put you in normal ranges. If you are in normal range, working out regularly and eating right why would you not see gains in muscle mass? Will you see results like taking 500mg a week along with an oral jumpstart? Not quite.
    this exactly, I know many people on TRT even still cycle just to gain more muscle but if you are on TRT you should just gain like the average person, Doc's don't prescribe it to make regular guys huge haha
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    Yeah, I was just wondering how anabolic trt doses may be. But it makes total sense what you're saying. I suppose if you've been working out with low T levels and not seeing much progress, then trt could result in gains you're not used to seeing - that was more or less what I was asking. What is typically the target level for trt - mid-normal, high-normal?
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    Target is usually always high-normal from my experience. Me for example, I have always put muscle on quickly and even having low test for 1-2 years didn't really change that, except that I had to work my ass off all the time to stay like that. Once I went on TRT and my test is consistently in the 700s, I put muscle on like nothing. I've completely altered my workouts in the last 10 months because they aren't necessary and I can do half of what I was doing with better results.

    So, in short, will TRT doses build muscle and make you lean- hell yes it will. Guys that aren't physically active will see benefits from leaning out and possibly seeing a little definition, but guys that actually do anything will be blown away. Is it going to make you enormous and lifting weights you never thought possible, well no. That's what cycles and high dose levels are for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Target is usually always high-normal from my experience. Me for example, I have always put muscle on quickly and even having low test for 1-2 years didn't really change that, except that I had to work my ass off all the time to stay like that. Once I went on TRT and my test is consistently in the 700s, I put muscle on like nothing. I've completely altered my workouts in the last 10 months because they aren't necessary and I can do half of what I was doing with better results.

    So, in short, will TRT doses build muscle and make you lean- hell yes it will. Guys that aren't physically active will see benefits from leaning out and possibly seeing a little definition, but guys that actually do anything will be blown away. Is it going to make you enormous and lifting weights you never thought possible, well no. That's what cycles and high dose levels are for.

    This is what I wanted to know - thanks for responding! I'm still waiting for my t-level results to come back, so I'm not sure yet if I'll be going on trt or not. Just wanted to find out what I might can expect if I do...
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    With only 125-150mg a week, you can expect decreased recovery time, increased endurance, slightly lower bodyfat, better libido, etc. IMO, a near perfect TRT would include:

    125mg test per week
    1iu HGH per day
    aromasin / letro (used sparingly)

    That's basically enough to feel 20 years old all over again.
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    How in the world can you say what a perfect TRT would be? If it were that easy, everyone would just start there and not need to adjust. For those of us on it, we know that getting to right levels and intervals is a trial and error process that takes awhile to find. For me, that happens to be 125 a week, for others it can be 75 or 200.

    And I do know that you posted IMO, but it is way to broad of a topic to talk about exact numbers like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripped_one
    With only 125-150mg a week, you can expect decreased recovery time, increased endurance, slightly lower bodyfat, better libido, etc. IMO, a near perfect TRT would include:

    125mg test per week
    1iu HGH per day
    aromasin / letro (used sparingly)

    That's basically enough to feel 20 years old all over again.
    Not sure how you came to 1 iu/day. As kisaj noted, there is to much variability from person to person. Example: I've been on .5 iu, went to the endo yesterday and my igf-1 was in the 500's. He said that was a bit high, so he had me decrease it to .4iu's.

    Basically agree with the other info in your post...
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    Ok, I assume that once you're on trt, then you have to get your levels checked at some regular interval. For those of you who also run orals and stack while on trt, wouldn't that screw up the blood tests, and wouldn't your doc know that you were doing that?
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    I get checked every 3 months, but I don't run anything else, so I can't speak to that. It's pretty standard to get checked every 3 your first year, every 6 the next year and then annually.
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    I go to the doc once a month to get levels and andro cream. Levels are good for 36 yrs old now that I started trt. It made a difference in my energy levels and gym performance, not size. gains are finally starting to show after busting my ass though. Maybe the TRT did help a bit.
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    Seems there may be a difference between injections and transdermal and their affects? I've read where some others didn't see much in the way of growth when just using a cream or patch...
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperCat View Post
    Seems there may be a difference between injections and transdermal and their affects? I've read where some others didn't see much in the way of growth when just using a cream or patch...
    true, some ppl dont absorb very well through the skin.
    Injections are king in terms of constant results
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    I have been on 100mg a week for the past two months, and I feel like I am king of the world. What was difficult in the gym is now gravy. Strength up, energy up, libido up. Wish I would have gone down this path a long time ago...With that said, it has only been two months...Once I know my levels are stable, I plan to cycle an oral at 6 weeks on then 4 weeks off leading into my blood test. I test every 10 weeks for now.
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    Test results indicate my total test is 318 (low according to the normal range of 348-1197), and free test is 7.8 (which is in range of 6.8-21.5). My doc evidently doesn't think it's low enough to do anything. My LH was 2.9 (within range of 1.7-8.6) and FSH is 6.1 (within range of 1.5-12.4).

    My last cycle ended over 2.5 months ago, but I don't have a baseline to compare. I'm not sure if I want to push him on trt right now, or if I should hold off. I've been under a lot of stress due to job circumstances lately, so maybe if I can get my stress levels down, I'll be in a little better shape. Any thoughts? Biggest issues I have are lack of energy and libido. He gave me a sample of daily cialis, but it seems to put me in a bad mood for some reason. He did cut down my dose of a beta blocker I'm on, which I've been on for years, because he thinks that could at least be a contributing factor.
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    i only do bw once yearly now as my numbers are very stable.

    will a true trt dose help you in the gym? maybe a boost in the beginning but not in the long run.
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    That doesn't make any sense. Having high normal test is definitely going to help you in the gym now and in the long term over having low test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    That doesn't make any sense. Having high normal test is definitely going to help you in the gym now and in the long term over having low test.

    of course it makes sense. think back to when you first started trt. man it was blis when you went from say 200 to 800-1000. early on you notice a pretty nice increase in performance all around but that levels off as you know. does it help? of course. does it make a big difference in terms of gains? again early on yes. lets say you are destined to be 180lbs genetically. trt dosages are not gonna get you past that

    of course i agree you are better off with high normal test levels than low but think of it how i did. when someone asks this they are usually thinking i terms of say cycling ie. will i get jacked on trt doses. no you will not as you know its nothing like running 5-700mg/week
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperCat View Post
    Test results indicate my total test is 318 (low according to the normal range of 348-1197), and free test is 7.8 (which is in range of 6.8-21.5). My doc evidently doesn't think it's low enough to do anything. My LH was 2.9 (within range of 1.7-8.6) and FSH is 6.1 (within range of 1.5-12.4).

    My last cycle ended over 2.5 months ago, but I don't have a baseline to compare. I'm not sure if I want to push him on trt right now, or if I should hold off. I've been under a lot of stress due to job circumstances lately, so maybe if I can get my stress levels down, I'll be in a little better shape. Any thoughts? Biggest issues I have are lack of energy and libido. He gave me a sample of daily cialis, but it seems to put me in a bad mood for some reason. He did cut down my dose of a beta blocker I'm on, which I've been on for years, because he thinks that could at least be a contributing factor.
    bump - anyone have any input here? I know all doctors are different, but do you think my doc isn't putting me on any trt because he thinks my levels just aren't low enough? Is there some threshold where they usually say "yep, he needs trt". Here are my levels again:

    total test is 318 (low according to the normal range of 348-1197)
    free test is 7.8 (which is in the low range of 6.8-21.5)
    LH is 2.9 (within low range of 1.7-8.6)
    FSH is 6.1 (within range of 1.5-12.4).
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    It's really going to vary substantially from doctor to doctor.
    I tested at 209
    My doc put me on 50 a week but prescribed enough for 100 a week,
    Which I quickly moved to,
    I now supplement that dosage,
    And feel like superman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyperCat View Post
    bump - anyone have any input here? I know all doctors are different, but do you think my doc isn't putting me on any trt because he thinks my levels just aren't low enough? Is there some threshold where they usually say "yep, he needs trt". Here are my levels again:

    total test is 318 (low according to the normal range of 348-1197)
    free test is 7.8 (which is in the low range of 6.8-21.5)
    LH is 2.9 (within low range of 1.7-8.6)
    FSH is 6.1 (within range of 1.5-12.4).
    The question is this, do you want to do test or fix your problem? Sounds to me that you want to get on test in which case why go to the doctor if you want to cycle?
    Just an FYI..prohormons are extremely damaging to someone;s own natural test production. Dont be fooled by the fact that you can get them from a supplement store. My advice if you want to mess around with hormons try testosterone. You have a much better chance to recover from it than prohormons. I remember the infamous M1T. Strong but such poison and the new clones are not any better. IMO guys try to stay away from anything that is not a straight steroid with some track record unless you want to hit TRT early in life.
    I know some of you are in love with prohormons but they are nothing but trouble.
    I know guys who did well controled cycles of test and subsequent test/dbol with great results and recovery. How much can you gain in 4 weeks on prohormons and shut your system to hell only to lose most of it....doesnt make much sense to me.
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    I started trt in April. Dose is 135/week. For me, it feels like I had been cheated out of my normal gains for the past 3 years. Now, with the trt, I can progress according to the effort I put into my workouts and discipline I have with my diet. Without trt, I was stuck at a very sub optimum level of body composition. Now on trt, I progress, I am bigger, stronger, and a little leaner. The only problem I have is a little excess water/ bloating. I have supplemented with a light sd cycle bridged into epi. The epi really cut the estro related sides of the trt. I'm sure that I will reach a point where I level out and gains become a little more difficult. Till then I am living it up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice 58 View Post
    I started trt in April. Dose is 135/week. For me, it feels like I had been cheated out of my normal gains for the past 3 years. Now, with the trt, I can progress according to the effort I put into my workouts and discipline I have with my diet. Without trt, I was stuck at a very sub optimum level of body composition. Now on trt, I progress, I am bigger, stronger, and a little leaner. The only problem I have is a little excess water/ bloating. I have supplemented with a light sd cycle bridged into epi. The epi really cut the estro related sides of the trt. I'm sure that I will reach a point where I level out and gains become a little more difficult. Till then I am living it up
    This is what I keep thinking - perhaps I'm getting shafted on gains because of low T. However, my libido has also been in the crapper, as well as energy levels and just feeling older than I am in general, so I can't help but think trt could improve my situation on many levels. I've read too many positive experiences to think it wouldn't help. I know it's not a decision to take lightly, but I may go see my doc, as I haven't talked to him about my results. The nurse called and just told me he thinks my T looks ok. He could be receptive to putting me on trt - I'll just have to talk to him.

    Thanks for everyone's feedback...
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    I have been on TRT for a couple years now. First on testosterone cream then HCG mono now test cyp 100mg per week. The cream and HCG resolved a lot of symptoms, but I never could get my T level up to a decent level and never noticed any particularly good gains in mass. I hope that I can finally get my level up to the top of the range and maybe I will finally see at least a noticeable effect in the gym.
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    I'm excited for you guys that have thought this through and are about to embark on the TRT life. If you've checked off all other variables and it comes down to this, it is a life changer. Mood, confidence, mental clarity, body composition, libido, etc...

    It's like being 20 again, but with all the knowledge of a 40 year old. Ever joke about wanting to go back? Well...
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    So guys, I'm seeing my doc later today...he's gonna have the results from my recent bloodwork. My question is, what age is considered too young to go on trt? After all, you pretty much have to be on it for life once you start, right? I'm almost 43 btw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjo View Post
    So guys, I'm seeing my doc later today...he's gonna have the results from my recent bloodwork. My question is, what age is considered too young to go on trt? After all, you pretty much have to be on it for life once you start, right? I'm almost 43 btw.
    When you need it, it's a condition like any other other conditions and age doesnt really matter. In reality as one gets past 40 is more likley to suffer is not a age written in stone though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjo View Post
    So guys, I'm seeing my doc later today...he's gonna have the results from my recent bloodwork. My question is, what age is considered too young to go on trt? After all, you pretty much have to be on it for life once you start, right? I'm almost 43 btw.
    I started at age 45. I started having low T symptoms at around 40. I wish I would have started sooner, but couldn't find a doctor who would treat me.
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    If it's needed after running through all possible issues causing it- then it is never considered too young.
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    Thx for the replies fellas! ?
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    So my total test came back as 221 which the doc says is considered low normal. He wants to put me on test enanthate and see how it goes.
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    Did he run any thyroid tests (T3, T4, TSH), eliminate lifestyle variables, etc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjo View Post
    So my total test came back as 221 which the doc says is considered low normal. He wants to put me on test enanthate and see how it goes.
    I would consider 221 as below normal, especially when age adjusted. A chart I have from a study which shows average total testosterone by age in healthy men does not show anything as low as 221. The lowest is 376 for the 85-100 year old group. The 35-44 age group shows an average of 668. The thing to remember, which doctors don't seem to remember is that any lab range is based on the usual or "normal" range for most patients. This includes sick as well as healthy people, and considering that most people who have lab work done are not healthy or they wouldn't be having lab work done, lab ranges tend to be the "normal" for unhealthy people. Not the optimal ranges for healthy people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj
    Did he run any thyroid tests (T3, T4, TSH), eliminate lifestyle variables, etc?
    Yup, thyroid numbers were all within normal range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJE
    I would consider 221 as below normal, especially when age adjusted. A chart I have from a study which shows average total testosterone by age in healthy men does not show anything as low as 221. The lowest is 376 for the 85-100 year old group. The 35-44 age group shows an average of 668. The thing to remember, which doctors don't seem to remember is that any lab range is based on the usual or "normal" range for most patients. This includes sick as well as healthy people, and considering that most people who have lab work done are not healthy or they wouldn't be having lab work done, lab ranges tend to be the "normal" for unhealthy people. Not the optimal ranges for healthy people.
    Great info, thx!
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    221 is definitely below normal. I don't know, call me a skeptic, but I don't think anyone should go on TRT after one test. I think several tests with a full review of everything by a specialist should be done. Rule out sleep issues, stress issues, etc. Just because if you don't, then TRT will work great at first, then you'll slowly go back to the original problems and by then you'll already have shut down your natural production.

    I'd hit up Matrix on here and let him give you a run down of all the tests they run.
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    I got my first shot of test e yesterday (400mg). My doc wants me to repeat the same dosage every 2 weeks. However, wouldn't it be better in terms of establishing stable blood level concentrations if i instead dosed 200mg every week instead of 400mg every 2 weeks?
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    200 is a cycle, not TRT. Looks like to high of a dose to me. But yes, once a week would be MUCH better in regards to highs and lows.
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    You should PM Matrix on this, he seems to realy know his stuff, might be abl to help you out...
  

  
 

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