Ready for the real thing
- 06-04-2012, 02:57 AM
Ready for the real thing
Over the past 6 months or so I've been trying to raise my declining Test levels by using natural substances and supplements.
I've had some short term success that has whetted my appetite for a more long term solution.
Now the decision is.. what to do??
I live in Houston and there are many different "Men's" type clinics offering to boost my T using creams, shots, pellets etc..
Go to a regular doctor or endocrinologist.
Go to a "Men's" clinic
Go to Cenegenics
I've read that it's expensive and prices I've found range from $5k up to $20k per year.
If I could achieve the results I've seen in my searches I would be willing to go up to $10k per year.
Reading the material and different stories on the web I see that they do a pretty thorough diagnosis and attack your health from not only hormone replacement but also diet and lifestyle changes.
I know I could get such service from the right doctor but how to find the right doctor? Spend months or maybe years going from this one to that one until you find one that suits me?
I don't have time. I am only in the US for a few months out of the year and I have to "get in and get it done" with out going through weeks of waiting for test results to come back, adjusting doses etc...
I come here now to get opinions on Cenegenics and also recommendations on other options and what you think might be better.
- 06-05-2012, 04:59 PM
Do you want long term health? Find a good endo. Do you want an easy prescription for test? Go to a urologist or other endo if you have low test. Do you want lots of drugs? Go to the anti aging clinic where you will be deficient in testosterone, growth hormone, and might even be deficient in anavar, boldenone and nandralone....
- 07-28-2012, 09:17 AM
Repeated searches have not found a "Good" endo.
I have an appointment at one of those Bio Identical Test clinics to see what they can do.
I went to Cenegenics for an interview. I was very impressed with the doctor. We talked for several hours and he seemed to know what he was talking about. I played dumb at the start but he had all the answers that I was expecting. In the end he said he would probably put me on Test, HCG and maybe growth hormone if I wanted it. They test you every 6 weeks.
I'll see what the Bio Identical place has to say before I commit but so far I'm leaning toward the Cenegenics.
07-28-2012, 10:04 AM
I'm sure living in Houston or any surrounding city, sugar land, spring, humble, the woodlands, etc. you could look in the phone book or google compounding pharmacy. Not to use a compounded drug but just for information. Ask a pharmacist what physician or APN or clinic is doing the most business. They will be happy to tell you and you should get a list of local places to call and ask them questions. Then get on what's needed based on laboratory findings, if any. Then there are countless fitness coaches in Houston to work with to lose weight/fat build muscle.Originally Posted by RedRaptor
07-28-2012, 11:11 AM
I don't know about your area, but I have had a hell of a time finding a decent endo here. I started at my doctor and he is a younger guy and pretty up on all the tests needed when I went to him to discuss symptoms I had been having for a couple years. Found out that my free T3 came back on the lower side, but after researching and talking to other doctors and endos, this is very common. It seems like almost anyone that gets their thyroid tested falls into the hypo "catch all". My doc prescribed me test every 2 weeks and we went through a trial period for about 2-3 months trying different amounts and intervals with blood work done each time. It was a long, annoying process, but we got it nailed down and I have never, ever felt better. Maybe in my teens. He then referred me to some endos to follow up with so I could get my pituatary tested and get second opinions. Let me just tell you how much I hate Endos. In my opinion, they are completely worthless. I went to 3 of them and ran all the tests again and had consultations. Each one had a different opinion or idea based on my numbers, which are all normal now.
One wanted to actually up my test to 200mg a week (I take 125) because my test showed in the high 600s and he thought I should be in the 900s. I explained that I felt great and he simply wouldn't listen. Another one wanted me to stop right then and go on Clomid for 2-3 months and then retest. This sounded like he just pulled a theory out of the sky, so I questioned him on it and he got pissed. Any doctor that gets pissed about you inquiring about your health should be out of business. The third one would never return calls. They would leave a message telling me to get a hold of them because my tests were back and then I couldn't reach them for a week. Unacceptable.
So anyway, I am on top of the world and have been now for about 8 months. Even more now that I have added the Thyroid Support. Good luck to you- it is a journey to get it dialed in. Once you do, though, it is amazing.
Oh, the best part is that my doc gave me a prescription last month so I no longer have to go into the office. $5 for 3 months worth of test cyp and it takes all of 2-3 minutes out of my week.
07-29-2012, 02:26 AM
This is what I am expecting. To feel the way I felt when I first started taking DAA, Forma Stanzol and HcGenerate.. On top of the world, alpha male and invincible. The doctor at Cenegenics assured me that I would feel better than I've felt in many, many years.So anyway, I am on top of the world and have been now for about 8 months. Even more now that I have added the Thyroid Support. Good luck to you- it is a journey to get it dialed in. Once you do, though, it is amazing.
It's very reassuring to hear your success story Kisaj.
Do you inject or some other form?
That's great advice eman, there is a compounding pharmacy not far from me. I'll drop by there when I get back to the US.I'm sure living in Houston or any surrounding city, sugar land, spring, humble, the woodlands, etc. you could look in the phone book or google compounding pharmacy. Not to use a compounded drug but just for information. Ask a pharmacist what physician or APN or clinic is doing the most business. They will be happy to tell you and you should get a list of local places to call and ask them questions. Then get on what's needed based on laboratory findings, if any. Then there are countless fitness coaches in Houston to work with to lose weight/fat build muscle.
07-30-2012, 10:31 AM
I inject. I have kids and a wife and do not want to risk exposure from gels and creams, plus I don't like inconvenience. I want to be done a couple minutes and not think about it again for 7 days. This was part of my criteria when working with my doc. If I was inconvenienced everyday, I simply wouldn't do it.
08-04-2012, 12:28 AM
My experience with DAA, Forma-Stanzol and HcGenerate were life changing. After about 3 days I noticed profound changes. not in any order: Improved sleep, much better cognitive ability, improved memory, much improved mood and disposition (no depression!), much more energetic, much improved libido and an inner peace that I haven't felt in ages. Not to mention the subtle side effects. Swagger! "Male" feeling, not to be confused with Alpha male feeling which I did begin to feel after about the 5th day, vastly improved workouts due to much more energy and motivation. After about 2 weeks I felt a big change in workouts. I was able to increase my weights all across the board. Also I noticed I did not have to "build up" as much as in the past. I could do my warm ups with heavier weight.
I could not keep this regime going. DAA started giving me bad headaches so I had to lay off of it.
Next I tried Primordial Performance AndroBulk with AndroDrive. I didn't get all of the psychological benefits that I did with the original regime but I did see some real gains in the gym both weight and size after the third week. Couldn't keep that up either because of the increased blood pressure.
Can't wait to get started.
I'm looking forward to getting on T and getting my life back.
08-04-2012, 05:52 AM
Ive been tossing the idea around myself. Just dont want my doc to look at me and laugh... Id have to choke him out.
Just kidding. Hes a giant. but really.... I dont want to give in to being old but dammit, I dont feel like I should....
08-23-2012, 12:22 PM
For any who are on the fence about going for the real thing I am here to say get off your butt and do it.
I had my first dose two days ago and I can say with confidence that this is a life changer.
Energy, motivation, overall feeling of well being, confidence, better sleep and wake up feeling ready to take on the day and feeling of being "you" again. Just to name a few.
Wish I had done this much sooner.
Just do it!
08-23-2012, 10:26 PM
08-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Could be, or maybe not. RedRaptor- generally, a long ester seems to take 2-4 weeks for people to notice anything. It took me about 5 weeks to get the full effect and most of the guys I know were about 4 weeks. The difference is that when I started it was 250mg every 2 weeks. Way too much and too long of an interval. I'm sure there are people that notice affects earlier.
08-31-2012, 10:09 PM
09-01-2012, 01:59 PM
You're right about that.
It's been almost two weeks so I would expect any placebo effect to have faded and they did.
I still feel increased energy level, increased motivation, increased sexual desire and ability, less ringing in my ears, much clearer thinking, better short term memory, better focus, muscles are getting firmer and one thing I wasn't expecting is my weight is going up. I was told my weight would go down quickly (10 to 20 pounds in the first month) but I'm about 2 pounds heavier today than the day of my visit.
My dosage is 0.3ml of 200mg/ml twice weekly or roughly 120mg per week.
09-01-2012, 07:16 PM
Losing weight? I was told by all the endos and my doc that we would want to watch my weight because it always goes up. I've gained about 8 lbs in the last 10 months with a clean diet- it definitely is all muscle mass. My wrists have become thicker and my wedding ring has become difficult to take on and off. But, my waist has gone from a 34 to a 32.
09-01-2012, 10:24 PM
Im jealous of all you guys with energy, motivation, sexual desire, clear thinking, focus etc... I never knew anything about low testosterone till about 2 months ago. I use to kick ass. I was at the top of my game. Now I feel like a lazy, foggy headed turd. As close as I can tell Its been 5 years since I felt right. I know damn good and well that my doc wont go for TRT tho, Hes way old school. Ill have to do it on my own, which if fine. But the ol lady wants to have one more kiddo so Im gonna try Clomid for a while to see if that raises test to reasonable level. I just want to feel normal again.
09-03-2012, 09:31 PM
Hate to rub it in Bubba but when I woke up today I felt better than I've felt in many years. What's cool is that I wake up, sit on the edge of the bed and within 15 seconds I'm awake and ready, not groggy and wondering what day it is and if I'll make it to the coffee machine before I run out of energy. Coffee.. I've cut down to one cup a day and completely cut out all caffeinated drinks in the day. Not even tea.
Something weird today.
Today is my shot day so I'm getting everything ready and stab it in. Pull out the plunger to see if I hit a vein, nothing, so I slowly inject. No problem but when I pulled the needle out a BIG "bubble" of blood appears instantly. It runs down my leg onto the floor. I immediately thought I injected into a vein so I went to the internet to research it. Symptoms are: upset stomach and or vomiting, labored breathing, hot flashes and sweats.
I didn't feel any of those but I sure felt something. Tingling in my body like the first time it was injected, sort of a flushed feeling. Now I'm left with a feeling like "wow". I like!
I remember the doc pointing at my leg and saying. "inject here" and do it like this. Well a little more instruction would have been nice. Researching, I found that if you put your thumb on your thigh, about mid way between knee and hip, then wrap your fingers around your outer leg, the muscle under this area is where you need to inject. That big muscles under your hand. I had been injecting straight down into my leg around the middle of my muscle mass.
Why not go for test right off the bat? Does test make you sterile or less fertile?
I've noticed a reduction in quantity but no idea if the little guys are working in there or not.
My diet is very clean. I'm keeping a record of everything and I'm at about 2100 calories per day (can't seem to eat more, it's just too much food). 30/30/40 with lots of raw veggies, lots of fresh fruit, nuts as well as fish, chicken and turkey. 100 or more ounces of water. Removed all sugar and sugary products as well as bread from the house. One glass of wine with dinner. Basically reduced my carb intake by a substantial amount and increased my veggie intake by many fold. Doc suggested a vegan diet but I'm not sure I'm ready for that. He said it will reduce my cholesterol faster than anything. I kinda gave in and have reduced my animal product intake by a LARGE amount. Little meat and cheese in the salads to give flavor. Little butter in my oats, eggs only once or twice a week and only a little milk for coffee.
Encouraged by your words that you gained weight but lost in the waist.
09-04-2012, 09:26 AM
Liked your write up!
I inject in my ass, switching sides each week. Only once have I had any blood and it was similar to your story, when I pulled the needle out, a big blob of blood came out. I know you can't hit any veins in that area, so I imagine that it was just a weird injection. I get that rush you are talking about pretty much every time and have figured out that it is just my adrenaline from knowing that I just stuck myself with a needle.
As far as diet- I haven't changed anything. I eat a lot of fat, meats, and crave carbs. I've had to slow down my intake of fast carbs, but have been doing that since I was about 35. That made the biggest difference. I attribute my weight gain and fat loss completely to the test.
09-16-2012, 01:25 AM
I have also cut out a lot of the fast carbs and other junk.
Last January I was eating clean but slowly the junk creeps back in. One thing against me is that I travel a lot and there is not much available here in Africa as far as variety. They live on fast carbs, sugars and cheap foods. You would think fresh fruit and vegetables would be easy to find.. Wrong!
My weight has started to drop. I think my muscles puffed up giving me the weight increase to start and now that the muscles have puffed up I'm starting to lose weight as the muscle gain has stopped adding to my weight. My stomach (read belly) is shrinking almost daily. Fat in other areas has all but disappeared. Legs, chest, arms, chin.. all much slimmer.
Basically I'm eating about 2100 to 2300 calories per day. I've changed my workout to focus on cardio. I have ramped up and now am at 15 minutes of heart rate at 140ish. Lower weight, more reps in the gym.
Something that concerns me.
I just received a new batch of goodies from the main office in anticipation of my trip to Africa. My first shot from the new batch is very different from my experience up till now. The needle burned on the way in. The shot burned as I injected and the needle burned on the way out. The injection site was sore as in muscle sore for two days. Even today, third day since injection, it still has a "feeling".
As far as effects I have noticed.. no morning wood today as opposed to normally strong. Lower energy than I've been feeling and an overall reduction in the effects I have been feeling for the past few weeks.
Is this normal or did I get some bunk Test?? Why the burning? Almost like it is made with different chemical.
09-16-2012, 11:41 AM
I will likely be looking for test in the near future. My doc has prescribed it to patients before but has to do the injecting himself it so I will have to find somewhere to buy it on my own. I'm ok with that but I don't even know where to start.. So you are saying it may be possible to still be fertile on a TRT dose???
09-27-2012, 05:59 PM
09-29-2012, 01:22 AM
I contacted the doc and he recommended upping the dose to .4cc per shot.
I'm on my second injection at .4cc but I'm not happy.
I inject in the morning and around evening I feel some effects. Next day I feel more effects, then on the third day I'm back to feeling like I did before I started.
My theory is: My test was 430 (much higher than the test I had back in January which was 257) when I had it tested. I started injections at 120mg per week which added to my existing test. My test production stopped and my total test dropped. Now that I have no natural test being produced I'm relying on the injected and it's not a strong enough dose.
The recommended level on the blood test sheet was 800 to 1200. I would guess I'm about 450 to 500 based on the way I felt before and the way I feel now. (mood, energy, libido, male feeling, depressed feeling, appetite, workout energy and duration are all down to about the same level as before I started)
I think for the amount of money I'm paying.. I want 1200. I want to feel it like I felt it when I started taking DAA.
I'm thinking 200 to 250mg per week.
Now I'm working in Angola. Actually I work on an offshore drilling rig so I don't really see Africa except when I arrive and leave. November we'll be moving down to South Africa for a few years then I'll be staying in Cape Town during my off time. Want to do some sightseeing and photo shoots in the wild.
09-29-2012, 01:29 AM
Let me balance my negative comments with some positive that have come out of my trip to Cenegenics.
I thought I was in good shape. They tested my fitness and it came out "Low".
The nutritionist was very thorough and laid out some nice meal plans and diet change to lower my BP and Lipids. I have been following the diet plan and I have to say I don't feel that pounding in my head when I lay down, my fitness is increasing. I've gone from level 5 at 10 minutes huffing and puffing to level 7 at 15 minutes and feeling great after. My average heart rate for 15 minutes is up to 134 from 110.
Sadly my weight is stuck at 102kg but I can see my spare tire deflating.
Here in Angola i can't follow the diet plan as well as I can at home because we are limited on food choices. I eat more bread here than I was at home and a lot less veggies and fruits. (bread and carbs are cheap, protein and fruit are expensive).
Now If I could just get my test up there I would be happy.
09-29-2012, 06:36 PM
120mg of test should have you feeling effects for 5-7 days. I'd check to see if that is really your issue before upping the dose. I mean, some guys do feel better in the 1200 range, which you would need more to stay in that level, but personally, I'd want to make sure that is what the deal is.
09-30-2012, 03:28 AM
I'm taking .3cc of 200mg which is about 60mg per shot. That's twice a week so my dose is 120mg per week.
Trying to think what might be different than the first two weeks. I did change the shot location to more on the side of my leg in that big muscle instead of right in the middle (looking down from the top). Doc said to up the dose to .4cc so I did. Now I'm in my 6th day at the higher dose. Today is Sunday, last shot was Thursday and I will admit that I am feeling the effects. Nice mood, better motivation and energy and solid morning wood.
Probably at or near a good dose for me. Although I would like to go up to .5cc or 200mg per week but we'll see. I go in for more bloods when I get back after Oct. 9.
What I'm really wanting is the feeling I had when I started taking DAA, Forma and hcG (not HCG). I had super energy, super libido, super mood and I was starting to feel not only male but alpha male. Something I had never felt in my life. I want that.
I think for $1100 a month.. I should get it.
Going to the nutritionist has started me on a completely different path. Doing some searching and logical thinking I can see how my diet has effected me in a negative way. Living on carbs and processed foods, 2 or 3 sodas per day, going for days only eating one or two meals and not drinking enough water. Very poor and definitely not conducive to optimal body function.
I have been reading a lot of Matrix's posts and I'm getting very curious about these liver pathways and how they can effect my health. A few years ago I had serious pain in my side. I went to the emergency room and they did an ultrasound to tell me that I had gall stones and needed to have my gall bladder removed. I didn't do it but instead tried some home remedies. WRONG! About 8 months later I had a serious attack while I was in Africa. they sent me home and 3 days later I had it removed. Biopsy revealed it was not cancerous but had gangrene!
That could have been what caused my Test to fall because it was pretty sudden. in April I'm horny as heck and capable of multiple "performances" per day. August, I am not even interested in sex and can barely get it up. October I go in for pain which actually started in August causing me to make a trip to the cardiologist who said my heart was fine.
About 6 months after my surgery my test was 257, 13 months later it's 430. Leading me to think that maybe the gall bladder incident and poor diet were the source of my problem.
Maybe if I had some therapy for liver and kept on this diet I might have been able to recover my own production of Test.
I know that DAA stimulates your testes to produce test and they did and I felt like superman for a few weeks so I am wondering if I really have a problem of test production or just that the body is not telling them to produce??
My bloods in August:
Free Test 54
E2 22 (high sensitivity test)
I asked about HCG treatments before Test and he said that it is getting too hard to get HCG and just to do Test.
Wonder what Matrix would have to say?
I should make a post over in that thread.
09-30-2012, 09:39 AM
Last week I was feeling like my Test Cyp dose was too small. The doc upped my dose to .4cc twice a week. Over the past week i wasn't feeling anything and felt I might need more.
Being stuck in Africa without any medical facilities or testing labs I took matters into my own hands. As an experiment I looked through my bag of goodies (supps that I brought with me but haven't used up) and found some Forma-Stanzol. Ok this is interesting. So two days ago i started on 6 pumps am / pm. Not sure if it helped or not but over the past two days I've started feeling some very good effects. Today about 11am I really felt it. Energy is high, mood is high, workout was excellent, appetite is way up, libido is up. If I could bottle this feeling and sell it.. I would be a bazillionare pretty quickly.
I'm not up to the level of the DAA experiment but I would say 70% of that level. If I could stay at this level or even slightly higher I will be a very happy man.
Could be that my E2 was catching up with my Test and the Forma brought it down??
I don't know but I like!!
09-30-2012, 11:41 PM
Wish I had an answer for you, but I do have a question. Maybe I missed it, but if you had such results from the herbal and DAA stack, why did you stop and start taking test?
09-30-2012, 11:56 PM
I stopped the herbal because DAA gave me headaches and clouded my thinking. First it was mild then it got worse and on the 4th week I was like a zombie. Severe headache and couldn't think. Searching revealed that it messes with your neurological function via MDMA. I tried a second time after taking B12, L-dopa and TMG to help with the neurological issues but it gave me a headache on the third day. I tried it again in June and just a few days worth had me feeling like crap. Clouded thinking, severe headache and swollen throat (no idea what caused that). I've either got some sort of neurological problem that DAA exaggerates or I'm very sensitive to MDMA. Maybe all that X I did in my 20's..... Besides I don't think DAA is a permanent solution. Even the Italians say 90 days max then 30 days off (or something like that)
10-01-2012, 12:03 AM
Wait, don't you mean NMDA? MDMA is a psychoactive component in x.
Either way, I thought I like DAA when I tried it when it first came out, but like you, I had crazy bad headaches. I would take a 3g dose and then about 30 minutes later, the top of my head felt like it was going to blow off. No way that was good, and after researching it, I realized it was a nasty side effect.
10-01-2012, 12:26 AM
Ha ha ha.. Too much X in my 20's
MDMA must have been stuck in my memory bank somewhere.
I've been on Test for 6 weeks and I think it's the best thing I've done.
I feel so much better than I did 7 weeks ago it's not even funny. no depression, great mood, great energy.. it's amazing.
Something I've never read about is the orgasms. Wow! When my girl and I had sex last before I left. The orgasm was WOW, maybe the best I've ever had.
11-16-2012, 03:40 AM
Just wanted to update:
I had my bloods done during my last trip home.
Cholesterol is down 100 points
TT is 1800+
FT is 447
E2 is 19
160mg week of Cyp, 12.5mg of Aromasin with each shot and the rest is good eating, exercise and vitamins.
I'm starting to feel a change in my body. It feels much denser, my base strength is improving (carried 50pounds of water up 3 flights and hardly breathing hard). Libido is strong, no depression, memory is good, fast reflexes compared to last year and overall I feel so good I get chill bumps at times.
I think my TT is a little high.
What are the consequences of high TT??
Should I drop down to 120mg week as originally prescribed?
11-16-2012, 08:07 AM
When was that blood drawn in relation to the last time you had an injection? Those are insanely high numbers and unless you injected and then went and tested, look like low-mid level cycle numbers.
11-16-2012, 10:06 AM
Just read your post about cutting back to 100mg week.
Seems like sound advice.
I injected Monday morning and the blood was drawn on Tuesday morning. I didn't make the schedule and no one asked me when I had last injected.
Could be that it was at the peak.
I double checked the sheet with my results
TT = 1858
FT = 443.5
E2 = 13 (high Sensitivity)
IGF-I = 93 (no range given.. is that good or bad?)
I think Aromasin may have contributed to high FT and low E2.
Could explain my anxiety.
I'm cutting back to my original 60mg twice weekly.
11-16-2012, 10:27 AM
I didn't see that you mentioned high anxiety in your posts, but yeah, it would make complete sense. Seems like something most guys have to find out about on their own when the test levels get that high. I know I did. I would even feel a twinge of it at 125 with my levels peaked at or around 1300. It was completely manageable, but I figured, why should I just manage something when my goal is to feel great. Since lowering to 100, and having been at this level for a little while now, I've really reaped the benefits. Most notably the lack of any anxiety and increased mood.
11-16-2012, 11:01 AM
The anxiety is not bad. Just get antsy at times and I don't remember being that way in the past.
I want that "inner glow" feeling back. I felt it for a while then it faded and we upped the dose to 160. At that dose I haven't felt it either. I mean I feel great but I don't have that smile on my face all day that I had.
I'm in africa now so no chance of talking to my doc. I'm going to experiment and drop it down to 120 for a few weeks and may go even lower after that just as an experiment.
11-17-2012, 07:39 PM
11-19-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm going to remember that next time. I was not told anything about what day to test. Just the test nurse kept hounding me to get my blood drawn. All he said was. don't eat for 12 hours. he even forgot to get my Urine test.
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