Trt science

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    Trt science


    I'm nowhere near needing trt. Just had a thought which popped in my hea I can't figure out.. When guys are put on trt how does it get the body to start making test itself.. Wouldn't the injections keep you shut down??

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    trt is for life bud. Doc shuts you down with replacement test
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    I'm nowhere near needing trt. Just had a thought which popped in my hea I can't figure out.. When guys are put on trt how does it get the body to start making test itself.. Wouldn't the injections keep you shut down??
    Most guys use HCG, which stimulates the LH/leydig cells, keeping things going. You're still shut down, but stimulating production.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Most guys use HCG, which stimulates the LH/leydig cells, keeping things going. You're still shut down, but stimulating production.
    I think most is stretching it. A lot do, but many doctors don't presribe HCG alongside TRT
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I think most is stretching it. A lot do, but many doctors don't presribe HCG alongside TRT
    Ok, I'll restate it: Everyone I know on TRT usues HCG and their doctors will prescribe HCG if asked. My "pool" is probably 30 or so that I know for certain. If your doctor will not prescribe HCG, then I'd get a new doctor. However, let me caveat this by saying that many do as I do and grab HCG from other sources for a variety of reasons. We used AAS before going on TRT so have a ready source of supply that we do not want to lose. So who knows what the percentage is of those that use HCG and those that don't, but anyone who was knowledgable about AAS going into TRT will more than likely use HCG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer

    Ok, I'll restate it: Everyone I know on TRT usues HCG and their doctors will prescribe HCG if asked. My "pool" is probably 30 or so that I know for certain. If your doctor will not prescribe HCG, then I'd get a new doctor. However, let me caveat this by saying that many do as I do and grab HCG from other sources for a variety of reasons. We used AAS before going on TRT so have a ready source of supply that we do not want to lose. So who knows what the percentage is of those that use HCG and those that don't, but anyone who was knowledgable about AAS going into TRT will more than likely use HCG.
    So wouldnt it make sense to just prescribe hcg first
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartoon
    trt is for life bud. Doc shuts you down with replacement test
    Ive seen a lot of people say once their test levels are in the nirmal range the treatmentt is stopped
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    Ive seen a lot of people say once their test levels are in the nirmal range the treatmentt is stopped
    then they are idiots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machorox123 View Post
    So wouldnt it make sense to just prescribe hcg first
    It would make perfect sense to me, but I'm not a doctor. Many doctors are ill prepared to address a TRT program. To put it bluntly, they don't know s hit about TRT. That's why you have such a wide range of treatments for the same problem. Some doctors will prescribe 100mgs every month of test c and think that's all you need. That's insane. They really don't understand TRT that well so adding HCG in the program scares them because they don't know why, how much, etc. And you don't "need" it, but if you want to maintain some degree of normal production, this is one way to do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    then they are idiots.
    You beat me to the punch.
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    the main reason to prescribe hcg first would be if not only testosterone levels are low, but LH levels are too. then its worth trying hcg first to see if using that as replacement LH raises total + free testosterone. If LH isn't low, hcg alone usually won't do much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the main reason to prescribe hcg first would be if not only testosterone levels are low, but LH levels are too. then its worth trying hcg first to see if using that as replacement LH raises total + free testosterone. If LH isn't low, hcg alone usually won't do much.
    So someone like me for example- I have my diet and sleep in check. I rarely drink. I do have a lot of stress, but that will never go away with kids, big mortgage, my career, etc. My life is VERY stressful. My bloodwork shows on two tests about 3 weeks apart:

    Test- 291, 273
    LH- 3.8, 3.5
    FSH- 2.9, 2.8

    My doc wants me on 150mg test cyp ew. Would I be someone that would be better off trying HCG first?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    So someone like me for example- I have my diet and sleep in check. I rarely drink. I do have a lot of stress, but that will never go away with kids, big mortgage, my career, etc. My life is VERY stressful. My bloodwork shows on two tests about 3 weeks apart:

    Test- 291, 273
    LH- 3.8, 3.5
    FSH- 2.9, 2.8

    My doc wants me on 150mg test cyp ew. Would I be someone that would be better off trying HCG first?
    depends on what normal range is for LH on that test, but if its like most tests I think that is towards the low end but still inside normal, so it might help or might not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    My doc wants me on 150mg test cyp ew. Would I be someone that would be better off trying HCG first?
    No.
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    The range for LH was 1.5-12.5 (I believe that was the high side). I was definitely in the normal range for LH, but it was on the low side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    The range for LH was 1.5-12.5 (I believe that was the high side). I was definitely in the normal range for LH, but it was on the low side.
    How old are you? What exactly are you trying to do? Don't forget that HCG is suppressive too, but not like testosterone. Are you willing to go on TRT for life or do you just want to see how you feel on test?

    Typically, a guy on AAS, running a cycle, shuts down, which in turn stops the LH from stimulating the leydig cells and so on. So they use HCG during cycle to keep the LH working, even when the pituitary has stopped sending signals to produce. If all goes well, when they hit PCT they won't have shut down the system in its entirety so restarting is easier. Guys on TRT, like myself, use HCG because I want to keep some natural production. Others don't care, since they'll be on TRT for life, so what does it matter?

    So what are you trying to accomplish?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    How old are you? What exactly are you trying to do? Don't forget that HCG is suppressive too, but not like testosterone. Are you willing to go on TRT for life or do you just want to see how you feel on test?

    Typically, a guy on AAS, running a cycle, shuts down, which in turn stops the LH from stimulating the leydig cells and so on. So they use HCG during cycle to keep the LH working, even when the pituitary has stopped sending signals to produce. If all goes well, when they hit PCT they won't have shut down the system in its entirety so restarting is easier. Guys on TRT, like myself, use HCG because I want to keep some natural production. Others don't care, since they'll be on TRT for life, so what does it matter?

    So what are you trying to accomplish?
    I'm 37 and the reason I went to doc originally was because I have always lived a very active life and I get annual blood work to make sure all the normal stuff (cholesterol, blood pressure, internals, etc. are good). I always come back with great results, but I have been feeling like a complete turd for about a year now. No sex drive, no motivation, get angry very easily, trouble dealing with stress, and my biggest complaint- foggy thinking. I've tried every brain sup available with minimal results.

    Basically, I want to live like I did before. Have my drive back, be able to cope with stress better, desire sex, stopping being so agitated, and just be a better man. Do I want to be on something forever- no. But, if it means being who I used to be, then I am all for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I'm 37 and the reason I went to doc originally was because I have always lived a very active life and I get annual blood work to make sure all the normal stuff (cholesterol, blood pressure, internals, etc. are good). I always come back with great results, but I have been feeling like a complete turd for about a year now. No sex drive, no motivation, get angry very easily, trouble dealing with stress, and my biggest complaint- foggy thinking. I've tried every brain sup available with minimal results.

    Basically, I want to live like I did before. Have my drive back, be able to cope with stress better, desire sex, stopping being so agitated, and just be a better man. Do I want to be on something forever- no. But, if it means being who I used to be, then I am all for it.
    Typical symptoms of Andropause. You could try something simple like DHEA, but I wouldn't hold out much hope. Other problems can affect test levels, like adrenal deficiencies and pituitary problems, so before you jump on TRT, you may want to get everything tested to rule out the obvious. Then if TRT is the solution, you'll feel like an 18 year old again.
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    Thanks for the insight
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    I would think that a normal level LH, even if low, would rule out a pituitary problem. maybe not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I would think that a normal level LH, even if low, would rule out a pituitary problem. maybe not?
    Absolutely not. The LH level is not the only indicator of a healthy pituitary. It secretes a variety of important hormones, including adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), growth hormone (GH), prolactin, gonadotropins (FSH and LH), and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH). Not to mention pathogenic concerns, like tumors.
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    Hey hammer......not to hijack the thread, but I'm in a similar boat. Im 42. Was getting the shots, but switched to androgel due to convenience(2 pumps per day). Levels went down so doc bumped me to 3 pumps a day. Still generally feel like crap and have very little libido. Need to go back and get tested again, but I suspect my levels are still really low.

    How do you treat yours?
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    Detroit - Are you really 58? If so, what an inspiration!

    Looking sick diesel bro.


    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Most guys use HCG, which stimulates the LH/leydig cells, keeping things going. You're still shut down, but stimulating production.
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    Yeah, I was going to comment on that a while ago. If that is you in the av, and you are near 60, then sign me up for whatever you are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Detroit - Are you really 58? If so, what an inspiration!

    Looking sick diesel bro.
    Thanks man...Yeah, that's me, 58 last January. John Meloncamp had it right, hang on to 16 as long as you can!
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    Dang dude! Bad to da bone
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