My Endo doc is a moron.

[Bugman1400]

I'm stumped how my Endocrinologist can say I am in the normal range at an FT of 302. Is he high? I complained of a rock bottom libido and all he can ask me is how my wife feels about it. I am severely fustrated. I went to an anti-aging company before and got the cream from Anazao Health in Nevada which worked great but, the $500 a month was killing me.

Should I try a Uro doc next?

 

[bad rad]

Urologist seem to be more receptive to prescribing HRT. There are other clinics out there that are much cheaper, about the half the price you paid.

 

[tuberman]

I'm stumped how my Endocrinologist can say I am in the normal range at an FT of 302. Is he high? I complained of a rock bottom libido and all he can ask me is how my wife feels about it. I am severely fustrated. I went to an anti-aging company before and got the cream from Anazao Health in Nevada which worked great but, the $500 a month was killing me.

Should I try a Uro doc next?

Most Endos are extremely arrogant fools who know very little. But I think you've just discovered that for yourself. Have you considered cycling test boosters with steroid use instead? I'm getting better and better at this over the last three years and think I can get my levels up to as high as most are allowed on TRT on a test boosting cycle now. I also intend to use 8-10 week cycles of mild steroids 2-3 times per year. That should give me what I need, and guess what -- my "boys" actually get bigger on the boosting cycles!

I don't like doctor dependency any more than necessary, and I want to keep my natural ability to produce going as long as possible.

Your score of 300 would earn you a D and not an F on a proper scale and your endo wants to see you in the F range before he is willing to help. If you were a VIP such as a Congressman or Senator or a Police Chief in a large town, the butthead would have already supplied you with a script for as much test cyp as you desired.

 

[v4lu3s]

Mild steroid cycles do not replace testosterone, which has far more health impacts than sex drive and big muscles.

If my endo told me my testosterone was normal with a lab test that low, my reply would be "numbers don't mean anything to me, what I do know is that I have near zeron sex drive, I have erectile dysfunction, I have very little energy, I am putting on fat around my middle despite decent diet and exercise, and my marriage is on the verge of collapse due to no sex. So you can treat ME or you can treat a lab report. if you have that little respect for ME then I need a new doctor."

 

[tuberman]

Mild steroid cycles do not replace testosterone, which has far more health impacts than sex drive and big muscles.

No, you are wrong. There is recently, other mild natural, and non-methyl steroids (I'm not talking Epi here) that have minimal impact on health issues as long as you don't take excessive amounts or stay on them forever. They are DHEA derived steroids, and therefore your body creates and uses similar steroids all the time. These DHEA derived steroids have some of their own health positives separate from testosterone. And it was not my main point that mild steroids replace testosterone, it was that test boosting may be a better option than permanent TRT. Also, boosting test naturally, you get all the positive health bennies in spades, much better than using TRT. Guess what -- your "boys" shrink on TRT, and they get bigger on test boosters, that should help to tell you which has more heath factors.


Actually taking TRT is very much taking a Steroid, a mild natural steroid, but a Steroid, and an external one. It shuts you down after a while. And if you take large "juicer" doses, it has some of the same health problems of other steroids, but not as bad as the methyl stuff.

More important, if you actually read my full post, you would realize my emphasis on boosting testosterone 2/3 to 3/4 of the time. You selectively ignored that.

All this being said, I don't look down on people that use TRT or even injectable test, but I feel there may be a slightly better way that avoids doctor dependence and shutdown. Any of these options are better than putting up with low test, and even low "normal" test.

 

[v4lu3s]

if you think a substance that is NOT testosterone is a replacement for testosterone you are VERY wrong. it is a testosterone analogue, sure it may have other effects, but testosterone itself is a vital hormone for male health. What you are arguing makes as much sense as claiming that birth control pills for women are just as good as estrogen for female health. I know for a fact that you cannot take the mild steroids and show that they have all the health effects of testosterone throughout your body, including brain and heart health effects.

As far as test boosting, if there were effective products they would actually have medical use. Products based on one study, based on pseudo-science and anecdotal reports of success just cannot be relied upon. Even ones with multiple studies behind them have very random effects at time, and they also do not have ANY long term studies done on how effective they are or what other effects they may have. A good example is d-aspartic acid, which just does not work on everyone and has had other less desirable effects.

 

[tuberman]

if you think a substance that is NOT testosterone is a replacement for testosterone you are VERY wrong. it is a testosterone analogue, sure it may have other effects, but testosterone itself is a vital hormone for male health. What you are arguing makes as much sense as claiming that birth control pills for women are just as good as estrogen for female health. I know for a fact that you cannot take the mild steroids and show that they have all the health effects of testosterone throughout your body, including brain and heart health effects.

As far as test boosting, if there were effective products they would actually have medical use. Products based on one study, based on pseudo-science and anecdotal reports of success just cannot be relied upon. Even ones with multiple studies behind them have very random effects at time, and they also do not have ANY long term studies done on how effective they are or what other effects they may have. A good example is d-aspartic acid, which just does not work on everyone and has had other less desirable effects.

Before any test boosters can work well a good foundation must be set by the foods and health supplements that one takes. I plan to get a blood test in 7 weeks to check my total and free testosterone, and I will lay a good foundation then take some powerful test boosters before this blood test. I have a bunch of work to do tonight, but I'll get back to list diet and health supplement foundations that can possibly boost test levels by over a 100 points without even taking anything considered "test boosters."

There are some extremely good testosterone boosters today, but none that Big Pharm has found a way to patent at this point, and that's why medical "science" does not support it. Hey, they didn't support fish oil either until Big Pharm came up with their own.

a couple of problems with researchers checking testosterone boosters to see what they are capable of is 1) way too many variables to control such as general diet as well as exercise, and 2) they often use non-exercisers or newbies that don't know how to exercise as a major part of their studies. People who can, at least twice a week, do lower body power lifter type exercise such as squats and deads get a much larger boost from these supplements than newbies or non-exercisers.

You don't do "long-term" with test boosters, as most do lose some effectiveness over say 16 weeks. You simply switch over to another good set of test boosters every 8-12 weeks. Duh, people who work out cycle everything including exercise routines.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

tuberman everything you say makes perfect sense. I found that when I take good test boosters I feel much better than being on low dose TRT. I am prescribed low dose therapy but it is expensive. I n the long run though I see that what I am paying for test boosting probaly cost more. I am going to go talk with my doc soon to get prescribed by him instead of going through the ant-aging clinic that is ripping me off. My own doc did the physical for the anti aging clinic so he knows I need testosterone. I have found that Sustain Alpha with my low dose test takes my therapy to a much greater level. good luck tuberman and I look forward to reading more of what you have to say.

 

[tuberman]

tuberman everything you say makes perfect sense. I found that when I take good test boosters I feel much better than being on low dose TRT. I am prescribed low dose therapy but it is expensive. I n the long run though I see that what I am paying for test boosting probaly cost more. I am going to go talk with my doc soon to get prescribed by him instead of going through the ant-aging clinic that is ripping me off. My own doc did the physical for the anti aging clinic so he knows I need testosterone. I have found that Sustain Alpha with my low dose test takes my therapy to a much greater level. good luck tuberman and I look forward to reading more of what you have to say.

fanz,

You're correct. Good test boosting is not cheap, so if you can get insurance behind TRT it will cost quite a bit less. BOTH ARE MUCH BETTER THAN PUTTING UP WITH 300 LEVEL TEST OR LOWER. It's great to have options though, and test boosting is a cool art form in it's current stage. I'll get back to say more later.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I think my insurance will cover it. I have been talking to a few guys on this site.I have been low do to prostate issues for the last 10 years. I am now 34 and at 1 time when I was in my 20s my test came back in the high 200s. I have found a good dose of test for me (vitality,and energy) now I am trying to lock in a good anti-E protocol.

 

[tuberman]

Setting the foundation for test boosting:

We need fats such as coconut oil or extra virgin olive oil as well as the fish oil, and of course, vitamin D3 (the oil based kind) is essential too. Coconut oil and olive oil do improve total testosterone even by themselves, and the low fat diet of dietiers has done much to knock out test levels in guys. Zinc, selenium, tocotrienols, and dietary cholesterol (eat whole eggs) are important also. These fats, minerals, natural E, and dietary cholesterol set the foundation. You also need good sleep and low general stress levels to optimize testosterone. Large amounts of cardio will lower test also. All of these things are at least important and some are critical.

I'll get into the good test boosters in the next two days, and there are a number of them now. DAA is pretty good, but it does tend to increase PSA and prostate size, and it needs to be stacked or used in it's latest form. It stacks well with LCLT and Sarcosine as an example. It's not my favorite, but it certainly works.

 

[tuberman]

Testosterone Boosters have come a long way in the last few years from a bunch of iffy stuff like weak tribulus and under dosed Long Jack (LJ:100 or 200) to the current quite workable stuff. Monthly new products hit the market, I-Force has just released Intimidate with the hype that it's NMDA ups the effects of DAA by 100 fold. Well, maybe, but perhaps it will be a good to great product. It's new and I have not tried it yet. What I have tried is individual herbs and amminos such as Testofen Fenugreek with 50% Fenuside. This certainly works at medium to high doses. The first time I tried it way back I used 900 mg and the suggested dose was 600 mg. I could feel the difference at 900 mg, but nothing outstanding. Later I tried it at 1200 mg stacked with a low dose A.I., and some other lesser test booster (resveratrol in Sustain Alpha I think), and got very good results. Athletix makes Titanium XL with a standard dose of 1600 mg of the good Fenugreek, and it's backed up with LCLT and I3C at decent doses. I don't consider L-Carnitine-l-Tartrate to be a great stand alone booster, but it backs up others well, and also adding GPLC or just PLC to it makes it a strong Carnitine stack.

There are some products such as HCGenerate by Need to Build Muscle that are outstanding even by themselves. This product has the flagship herb of Fadogia, and they get the premium quality Fadogia that really makes it shine. It also contains 3,4- Divanil at 500 mg to help unbind the test you create. But 500 mg of stinging nettle extract is under dosed, and you can make HCGenerate more effective by adding more Divanil. I did this about a year ago, and actually blood tested results ( I also added a low-dose A.I. and some DAA to this mix). My test results came out over double my poor results of two years before that -- up from 242 to 620, but I was doing a lot of other things right too by this time and focusing on legs and back workouts. I tried to find my records of this, but couldn't, but it doesn't matter as I believe I can do better now.

High dose LJ:100 or 200 seems to work too, especially when stacked with other good boosters, but you need over a gram of the LJ:100 and half that of LJ:200. I have tried 1.2 gms a day and found it quite effective. Google it to find wholesale bulk prices, as it has become much cheaper recently. There have been small studies on this and found it's much more effective on long-term skilled exercisers than newbies (no surprise there).

Biotvia also has a great Fadogia product called Pro Max, that is backed up with Coleus Forskohlii which is another outstanding herb for cutting and boosting at the same time. It elevates cAMP which does many cool things. Coleus Forskohlii is a good herb to use with many boosters or cutting products.

Biotvia also came out with Bioforge earlier which uses Shilajit and Sensoril® (Ashwagandha extract) with large doses of EuryGold (a weaker version of LJ:100). This seems to be potent for many people, but the Shilajit is a pain to take as you must take it away from meals, and should not even eat for a while after for it to be effective.

Erase works too, through just being a strong anti-estrogen, and anti-cortisol. A good transdermal formestane works such as Forma Stanza, it has some cool extras to add to effects, but it's a bit pricey. I like the feel of the Forma Stanza over Erase, but that's my subjective stance, as they both work well.

Fish oil has some decent effects for unbinding test, but does not actually help to create much extra test like coconut oil does. The king of freeing test from SHGB is 3,4-Divanil though, and it essential to either use very high dose fish oil or the stinging nettle extract to unbind test. All test boosting stacks need something to free up the testosterone after it is created. I almost forgot magnesium as a foundation supplement, as many guys are short of this and it has a huge effect on whether or not your hormones are up to snuff. People who get their magnesium in line usually see their DHEA levels increase dramatically.

There are several other good to great boosters out there, but these are a pretty good start.

Rest and recovery, knowing how to workout, and working the lower body a couple times a week will make huge differences in how well these test booster work.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

Do you like stinging nettle with TRT?

 

[tuberman]

Do you like stinging nettle with TRT?

Stinging nettle does decrease DHT and the androgel type creams do increase DHT a lot, so it depends on how well TRT people handle the extra DHT. This could be an extra positive for many. It should also free up the the external test as well. Dutchman uses it with his HRT and swears by it, I believe. He said he uses two grams per day.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I use low dose injections. I just want to help protect the prostate thats why I asked about stinging nettle

 

[tuberman]

I use low dose injections. I just want to help protect the prostate thats why I asked about stinging nettle

Singing Nettle reduces DHT, and although that is protective of prostate, it has problems. DHT is good for guys in many ways because of the masculine effects (aggression, muscle harding, etc.). The prostate can be protected other ways -- I3C, DIM, small amounts of progesterone cream. and my favorite, feverfew. Feverfew will actually shrink the prostate, but it's dangerous, as it is a strong blood thinner, so use with care. Feverfew blocks the production of NFkB and IL6, two immune inflamation factors that get too strong and help to grow prostate, I use one cap a day of feverfew extract and still take breaks every so often, at two caps a day after about 3 days I'll start to bruise easily.

If you want the DHT effects, you could try very high dose fish oil to help free up test, and some other means to keep prostate in line. I may do some future searches on SHGB to see what else can unbind test from it.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I want to basically reduce prostate inflammation. doesn't DIM also reduce DHT?

 

[drexel]

Forget this OTC crap. Find another doc, get on TRT. BT, DT, nothing but nothing works like test and anybody saying otherwise hasn't tried the real thing.

 

[tuberman]

Forget this OTC crap. Find another doc, get on TRT. BT, DT, nothing but nothing works like test and anybody saying otherwise hasn't tried the real thing.

drex,

Are you talking "juicer" levels of 400 mg or more of injectable or higher? Boosted test is "real" test, out of your own boys, and what could be more "real" then that, but no, it can't compete with juicer levels of test. I have taken a couple of HRT level injections, and it did feel like a very strong test boosting, but that was not a juicer dose. I think I can reach the 750-800 level by using test boosters alone, and it does feel good. These supplements have come a long way in the last few years.

And if you are another one that says test boosters don't work, you're just wrong. Most docs try to keep you at the 500-600 level with the TRT creams, of course you can manipulate to get more.

 

[tuberman]

I want to basically reduce prostate inflammation. doesn't DIM also reduce DHT?

fanz,

This whole issue of wanting some of the effects of DHT, but desiring to keep prostate growth under control is a major problem. I need more research, but I'm working long hours as someone in my department at work is in the hospital and I have to part way cover his hours.

What do you know about this issue? How far have you looked into it? Curious.