Can test boosters help post andropause?

[RedRaptor]

I'm 53 and I figured out that about 18 months ago I experienced andropause.
Too many classic symptoms. No libido, no energy, no motivation, gaining weight while on the same diet as before, no muscle gain despite steady training, muscles flat and spongy.

I want to raise my test levels now to regain some pleasure in my life and make my workouts worth while (no test, no muscle gain)

I tried DAA and got a boost from it but it was short lived. (gave me a taste of the good life for about a week)
I will soon try an Erase, DAA and Trib stack to try to combat estro and promote test.

My question is. Can a man produce test after hitting andropause?
Is HRT the only way to increase test?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Red

 

[kingdong]

Well its definately worth a try. Im only 26, but I can remember when I took DAA after just turning 25, my balls actually go bigger. I would assume that if a person like myself with healhy test levels could have that type of a response, a person with an actual problem might respond better because your bodies desire to return homeostasis wouldnt fight it as much.

I recommend trying it as a standalone, and then the DAA/AI stack later down the road. For now, I dont really think you would need an AI since test is already low, and you probably whant some to convert to estrogen and lubricate joints anyway.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I would retry DAA but at half the dose 1.5 grams or 1 scoop daily of Lit up throw in 1 Erase a day at bedtime along with Hgh Up only at bedtime on a empty stomach. You should get a nice test increase. I would dose the Daa at half to keep prolactin and estrogen down which will keep you progessing with the Daa without the results being short lived. I just came off HRT and I am having much better results with this combo than with weekly test injections,HCG and Arimidex.

 

[MattPorter]

I'm 53 and I figured out that about 18 months ago I experienced andropause.
Too many classic symptoms. No libido, no energy, no motivation, gaining weight while on the same diet as before, no muscle gain despite steady training, muscles flat and spongy.

I want to raise my test levels now to regain some pleasure in my life and make my workouts worth while (no test, no muscle gain)

I tried DAA and got a boost from it but it was short lived. (gave me a taste of the good life for about a week)
I will soon try an Erase, DAA and Trib stack to try to combat estro and promote test.

My question is. Can a man produce test after hitting andropause?
Is HRT the only way to increase test?
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Red

Did this just recently happen? From the research I have done....testosterone levels from age 50-----80 typically have a minuscule decline and the decline from 28 - 50 is not so harsh given you have a healthy body fat range, and are on no medications/drugs to impair testosterone levels..... I am curious how long you have felt these andropause symptoms?

 

[gymrat827]

Did this just recently happen? From the research I have done....testosterone levels from age 50-----80 typically have a minuscule decline and the decline from 28 - 50 is not so harsh given you have a healthy body fat range, and are on no medications/drugs to impair testosterone levels..... I am curious how long you have felt these andropause symptoms?

x2x









if your using OTC supps and not going to a doc Id do:

DAA 4g's a day, taken pre WO or pre bed
Erase, 1 cap pre WO, 1 cap pre bed

You will need 2 tubs/bottles of DAA for this. But it should have you back living the high life again.
Tribulus is pointless, it will only help libido, not test levels.





if you really want kick things into overdrive:

HCGenerate 4 caps pre bed (5wks total, 1 bottle)
Forma staznol 4 pumps AM + PM (8wks total, 1 bottle)
DAA 3g's pre WO (8wks total so 2 bottles)

L Dopa + GABA pre bed, taken on empty stomach (for a GH boost, better sleep quality)



the 2nd stack will be way more potent than the 1st. as in double

 

[RedRaptor]

Did this just recently happen? From the research I have done....testosterone levels from age 50-----80 typically have a minuscule decline and the decline from 28 - 50 is not so harsh given you have a healthy body fat range, and are on no medications/drugs to impair testosterone levels..... I am curious how long you have felt these andropause symptoms?

About July of 2010 it was like a light switch that someone flipped to the OFF position.
My weight went up, my libido disappeared, I didn't care about much of anything, low energy and depressed.
I thought there was something wrong with me so I went and had a thorough physical (except blood work for hormones).
Cardiologist said I was per-hypertensive but not enough to warrant medication at the time. My cholesterol was elevated at 235 (forgot the ratio) and my potassium was a little low. I was about 35 pounds overweight. That is one reason I started to hit the gym and got interested in weight training.
I was not on any medication or drugs. I don't drink much and never have.
I will say that about 6 months later I had gall bladder attack and eventually had it removed a year after the andropause symptoms appeared.


Now after researching my condition I feel that I passed through andropause.
My first experience with DAA proved that my test was low as most of the symptoms went away and I felt like a man again if only for a short time.

I know my bodyfat is high and I am working to drop that figure. It's increasingly harder to drop fat now so I am having to rethink my strategy.

 

[MattPorter]

About July of 2010 it was like a light switch that someone flipped to the OFF position.
My weight went up, my libido disappeared, I didn't care about much of anything, low energy and depressed.
I thought there was something wrong with me so I went and had a thorough physical (except blood work for hormones).
Cardiologist said I was per-hypertensive but not enough to warrant medication at the time. My cholesterol was elevated at 235 (forgot the ratio) and my potassium was a little low. I was about 35 pounds overweight. That is one reason I started to hit the gym and got interested in weight training.
I was not on any medication or drugs. I don't drink much and never have.
I will say that about 6 months later I had gall bladder attack and eventually had it removed a year after the andropause symptoms appeared.


Now after researching my condition I feel that I passed through andropause.
My first experience with DAA proved that my test was low as most of the symptoms went away and I felt like a man again if only for a short time.

I know my bodyfat is high and I am working to drop that figure. It's increasingly harder to drop fat now so I am having to rethink my strategy.

Yes there is a direct correlation with AGE + HIGH BF% = LOW T-LEVELS.....I would not mess with these herbal t boosters and focus on regaining your natural Androgen levels...whether it be through getting blood work through a Dr, then using a TRT protocol

OR

Supplementing with DHEA, which IMO would be the first route I would stress before TRT. From my signature below, you obviously can see I work for Primordial Performance, but we LEAD the way in Hormones in the supplement industry.

I would imagine our new AndroDrive --which is DHEA Enanthate + Pregnenolone Enanthate would be in your best interest to optimize your hormones from their sub-optimal current state.

The positive aspect of using DHEA supplementation from our products is that you WILL NOT be suppressed from the intake of the hormones. We had our Beta Testers dose the product Once-a-day and the hormones peaked perfectly for 12-16 hours then dropped enough at bed time to keep endogenous production still functioning.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

can you take the androdrive for a extended period of time in place of trt?

 

[RedRaptor]

Can't find AndroDrive on your site Matt.

How do I get it??

 

[kingdong]

Lower your body fat definately, and dont ever go on TRT with high bodyfat(I just threw that in there in case you were contemplating it.)


To the guy who said tribulus was useless, Id like to challenge that a little. I mean its been proven not to raise test on its own, but what if your a man with libido problems and a girlfriend/wife whos getting fed up? Then you take lots of trib and start screwing like rabits. I bet that would boost the old test a bit.

 

[tuberman]

Red,

There are a number a good test boosters and they do work, and DAA is pretty good even alone. Most people need to stack 2-3 for excellent results. The thing that people forget to mention is that boosting total test is not that effective, and it is the amount of free, unbound test that does the work. You need to pick up some strong stinging nettle root extract such as Divanex or a mixed product such as TestoPro to free up bound test. TestoPro has testofen or fenugreek extract in it on top of the stinging nettle extract, and that is a decent test booster itself.

BTW, even if you use the PP Andro series first I would suggest freeing up bound test with stinging nettle root extract. As it will make that work better too. I am 63 and promote no companies, so my advice has no sales pitch. Not putting down Matt, and PP's products are great, but like I said, I'm unbiased.

 

[PR labs]

you need HRT

dont waste your time with DAA or any other stuff. You need Test ( CYP)... you should get your t levels and free t levels checked first but I would suggest a low does to get you to 550-750 for your age.
HRT is the real deal. dont **** around with Tribulus and the rest

 

[MattPorter]

Can't find AndroDrive on your site Matt.

How do I get it??

RedRaptor,

We are releasing all information on new Andro product line November 14th! We will have full write ups and complete documented studies done on all our beta testers showing blood work and results. Proven data.

Let me know if you have anymore questions?

Matt

 

[luclyluciano]

I have been doing a lot of research on this. Estrogen dominance is possibly the major problem as men age. Major cause for many male ailments. Look into pregnenolone, (mother og ALL hormones) progesterone for men, (powerfull anti estrogen and test booster and seriously misunderstood hormone when it comes to men).

Also check out my thread "END OF OLD AGE" for natural supplement discussions.








Men & Progesterone


What about progesterone in men?

Progesterone is produced in small amounts in men too. Progesterone is as vital for men's health as it is for women's.

When it comes to men & progesterone, progesterone protects men against excessive estrogen. Like women, men are also at risk of becoming estrogen dominant, and the symptoms, although different from women’s, can also be dire.

Some of the symptoms of excess estrogen in men are:

enlargement of the prostate
smaller urethras
inflammation of the prostate
increased frequency of urination
heart conditions
cellular changes leading to cancer
depression and fatigue
diminished libido
erectile dysfunction
The rise in estrogen also causes:

increase in abdominal fat
fatty tissues to be deposited in men’s breasts
a reduction in facial hair

Approximately 5 to 15mg of progesterone is made on a continuous daily basis in the testes.

Estrogen dominance in men can be caused by:

Environmental toxins – mainly xeno-estrogens

These are substances that mimic estrogen in the body and are vastly stronger than the normal estrogen produced naturally by the body. When they lock into the estrogen receptors in the body, they cause estrogen levels to rise exponentially.

Chemical pesticides, DDT, dioxin and PCB’s (polychlorinated biphenyls) are amongst the culprits. Dioxin is the by-product of the manufacture of chemicals using chlorine and includes disinfectants, dry cleaning fluids, pesticides, drugs and plastics – polystyrene and clingwrap in particular. PCB’s are used in lubricants, plastics, paints, varnishes and inks.

Food and water

Non-organic animals that are slaughtered for our food chain are fed estrogenic steroids to fatten them up. These estrogens go straight into the blood stream causing a further rise in estrogen levels.
Fried and trans fatty foods also perpetuate the production of estrogen.
Think of it this way – while the girls are munching on their salad greens, the guys munching on their burgers and fries are actually invisibly becoming more and more feminine!

Consider this: In many countries the water supply is recycled and mixed with fresh water. Since synthetic hormones are not filtered out of the water the levels of estrogens in our drinking water are rising all the time – every time a woman on the Pill or HRT goes to the toilet in fact!


As estrogen levels rise, progesterone and testosterone levels fall. Here’s why:

The relation between progesterone and testosterone

Progesterone is known as the “mother of all hormones” and gets converted in the male body into testosterone and other hormones. As men age, their progesterone levels drop and therefore so too do the testosterone levels. Compounded by the fact that estrogen levels are on the rise this slight imbalance becomes a major imbalance … fast.

Because progesterone is a precursor hormone for testosterone, it is increasingly becoming the hormone used to treat prostrate problems and other male hormone imbalance symptoms.


Progesterone and the Prostate

The alarming increase in prostate problems is now believed by some researchers to be due to the excessive quantities of environmental estrogens, particularly xeno-estrogens which cause men’s progesterone levels to drop especially as they age. High levels of di-hydrotestosterone have also been linked to prostate enlargement and cancer.

Natural progesterone therapy helps to protect against prostate problems and cancers. It is safe, with no toxic side effects and is being used increasingly often as an alternative to surgery.

Info about progesterone cream for men

Prevention and control of prostate disease and cancers have been assisted in many cases by the use of usp natural progesterone cream. There is substantial anecdotal evidence indicating that as little as 20mg/day is sufficient to reduce an enlarged prostate to normal. Some cases of prostate cancer have also responded to progesterone. As it is safe, with no toxic side effects, more and more men are putting stigma aside and embracing this natural alternative. After all – who wants to go under the surgeons knife if they don’t have to.

 

[cheesedips]

wouldnt trt help lose bodyfat?

 

[luclyluciano]

wouldnt trt help lose bodyfat?

Sure, if you want to shut down your own test production.

 

[RedRaptor]

Update:

I cut back on DAA to 1.5 grams per day. After about 4 days I felt the affects diminish. Lower energy level, wimping out on workouts, no libido and a general sluggish feeling. Upped the dose to 3 grams per day and life improved. More energy, some libido and good workouts.
Last week I returned to the US and found all the goodies I had ordered while away.

First I started by trying Gymrat's suggestion:

HCGenerate 4 caps pre bed
Forma staznol 4 pumps AM + PM
DAA 3g's pre WO

I didn't feel much after 3 days so I upped the HCGenerate to 4 caps pre bed and 2 caps in the AM.
Forma Staznol to 6 pumps AM + PM
3grams DAA before workouts.

Now it's been 6 days and I can feel a very pronounced difference. My energy is through the roof, feel like I'm on speed or something, my libido is overwhelming, my workout feels beastly, I feel better than I did as a teenager. My overall mood is outstanding. Happy, positive, confident and romantic (towards females only and what is really surprising is how clear my thinking has become.
I don't have to ask people to repeat their words, I don't have to stare at something to grasp what I'm looking at, my reflexes seem much faster (back to normal?).


Also note that I started on Beta Alanine 3x6.75g per day, Pregnenolone 100mg per day, Raw Cocoa powder 4 tbl spoons per day and non-denatured protein in almond milk (mix the cocoa in and it tastes like a dark chocolate shake. Very good).
I have also gotten my diet under control. 2200 calories a day in a 30, 40, 30 of Protein, carbs and fat respectively.

I'll also be ramping up on some other supplements as I research them.

Not sure if it's cut my estro back or increased my test or both.. Either way I feel great, alive, younger!

 

[RedRaptor]

LuclyLuciano:
I read your post about progesterone and I ask the question.
Does Pregnenolone supersede progesterone? I read that Pregnenolone is actually the mother of all hormones.
Be interesting to know the real story.

Also I have read the same things about milk, meat, eggs and xeno-estrogens. Now all are organic in my house.
My uncle is a chicken farmer in Arkansas and he tells me that the hormones they feed are so strong that when something eats the chicken sh!t they get the effects of the hormones as well. You can imagine the levels in the eggs and meat of those chickens. Unbelievable that such practice is allowed.

 

[tuberman]

LuclyLuciano:
I read your post about progesterone and I ask the question.
Does Pregnenolone supersede progesterone? I read that Pregnenolone is actually the mother of all hormones.
Be interesting to know the real story.

Also I have read the same things about milk, meat, eggs and xeno-estrogens. Now all are organic in my house.
My uncle is a chicken farmer in Arkansas and he tells me that the hormones they feed are so strong that when something eats the chicken sh!t they get the effects of the hormones as well. You can imagine the levels in the eggs and meat of those chickens. Unbelievable that such practice is allowed.

Red,

Just want to say one thing about this. Hormones passed on in food are mainly carried in the fats, as it is the fats that store the vast majority of the negative garbage. Eggs have almost no fat (chicken crap has a lot of fat). If one is going to eat these things or cannot avoid it due to budget, then be eliminating the fat in these products (very lean meats), you eliminate a large percent of the bad hormones and other nasty stuff.

On the other hand, organic eggs are not super expensive, but organic, grass fed beef, for example is very expensive.

 

[RedRaptor]

What I would like to do is have my blood checked. Never had that done so I'm not sure what to ask for.
I would like to see test level, free test, shbg, estro at least.. What else?
There is a Quest diagnostics nearby, I could probably drop in tomorrow and get it checked.

What test should I ask for?

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

wow seems very interesting and exciting. I am curious about the forma staznol. Is there anything orally that is comparable to it? I really can't use a topical cream right now. I use Erase for now

 

[RedRaptor]

Day 9 and I'm still feeling great.
One thing I found is that the Forma pump gives a much smaller dose on the second and subsequent pumps. I'm wondering if you should pump it once, rub it on then pump it again instead of pump it four times in rapid succession? I did that this morning and only used 4 pumps instead of 6. I also noticed that if I rubbed it on and then kept rubbing it took on a warm feeling and I tasted it in my mouth a few seconds later. Maybe I haven't been dosing it correctly??
Anyway.. we'll see.

5 more days and I'll stop this treatment and give it a weeks rest then start the Erase and DAA to compare.
As of now my energy is great, libido is almost too strong and I feel aggressive and alpha male. Workouts are a joy.

Red

 

[tuberman]

Day 9 and I'm still feeling great.
One thing I found is that the Forma pump gives a much smaller dose on the second and subsequent pumps. I'm wondering if you should pump it once, rub it on then pump it again instead of pump it four times in rapid succession? I did that this morning and only used 4 pumps instead of 6. I also noticed that if I rubbed it on and then kept rubbing it took on a warm feeling and I tasted it in my mouth a few seconds later. Maybe I haven't been dosing it correctly??
Anyway.. we'll see.

5 more days and I'll stop this treatment and give it a weeks rest then start the Erase and DAA to compare.
As of now my energy is great, libido is almost too strong and I feel aggressive and alpha male. Workouts are a joy.

Red

I liked gymrat's second suggestion quite a bit. NTBM's HCGenerate is excellent, but the stinging nettle is under-dosed a bit. Form at high levels may have some shutdown effects. I use low-dose form in my own stacks, as at high levels it acts like a mild steroid. I've used HCGenerate for a couple of months before and found it to one of the most effective natty test boosters available.

This is the right way to go. Experiment with test boosters first, and gain the knowledge about those even if you go to other stuff later.

 

[RedRaptor]

Interesting..
Day 10. Yesterday I stayed up until 12:30 (very late for me) and woke at 7:00am this morning.
All day I've felt flat. No energy, no libido, no motivation, brain fog, can't concentrate and general bad mood. Hope it's just lack of sleep. Especially after feeling like a teenager yesterday. Drastic contrast. I don't like it.
I'll get to bed early tonight and see what tomorrow brings.

Red

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

what dosing schedule do most people use with the HCGenerate?

 

[Casey Cousins]

You might not be able to be on that program long-term. You might need androgel (a testosterone cream) or something else.

Best thing is to get your blood level's checked! You can do so on your own by going to privatemdlabs or go to a endo doc and get a hormone panel done.

Easiest way to get to hormone panel done at privatemd.

 

[RedRaptor]

You may be right Casey.

Day 12.
I feel that my estro level is not high but neither is my test level.
I'm basing my estro level judgement on several factors.
I don't feel emo, my piss stream is strong (prostate not swollen), I feel slightly aggressive and "manly" and I don't feel fat.

I'm basing my judgement of lower test on these factors.
Aggressiveness is lower, no alpha male feeling, mood is not elevated, energy is not elevated and I feel slightly depressed.

libido is mediocre. (I know test and estro play a part in this so I'm not using it to judge my test levels)

Workouts are still good. I feel strong and enjoy the work. (higher test symptom?)

My diet has been good.
Organic eggs and egg whites, organic steel cut oats, organic milk, almond milk, organic meats, wild caught sockeye salmon, lots more organic veggies, very little sugar and fast carbs.

Supplements are:
Forma - 4 pumps am & pm
HCGenerate - 4 pm & 2 am
DAA - 3 grams pre workout
Astaxanthin - 8 mg (4mg am & pm)
Zeaxanthin & Lutein 8mg & 24mg respectively
Beta-alanine - 6.75g (2.25g x 3 times daily)
Pregnenolone - 100mg
L-Carnosine - 500mg
ZMA - 3 caps before bed

Non-denatured and unflavored protein from grass fed cows, raw cocoa powder and sweetened with agave nectar. (you should try this.. outstanding taste)

I feel OK, just not as charged up as I felt a week ago. I'm sleeping very good with vivid dreams.
My mood is up and down. At the moment I feel great. Yesterday in the evening I felt down. My motivation is mediocre unlike last week when it was high.

Am I asking too much to maintain the feeling from a week ago?
Maybe men in andropause are limited to the test they can produce?
Maybe my body has become accustomed to the Forma and HCG and I need to up the dose?
I will up the does of HCG and Forma for a week to test.
HCGenerate - 4am & 4pm (package reads 5 to 10 caps a day)
Forma - 6 pumps am & pm (package reads up to 20 pumps a day)

Red

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

thats too much Forma! You will further suppressing yourself.Go back to your day 8 or 9 and continue with that dosing for awhile. Ignore Casey Androgel is not its all cracked up to be. Its better to optimize yourself than to lather cream on yourself or have to take a shot every 7 days.

 

[RedRaptor]

Yesterday after I posted I started feeling great. I slept good, woke up feeling great, felt great all day and my workout today was one of my best. Biceps, back and squats. For back I was doing pull ups. I've never been good at pull ups. Probably because I weigh 200+ and haven't built my strength up that high. Today I did 3x10, 1x8 and 1x7 body weight after warm up. In the past I have been lucky to get 2x10 and maybe 1x4 or 5.
Yesterdays workout was also outstanding. Lots of energy and felt strong.

I would really like to stay at this level. It's not as "hot" as the first week but it's definitely better than the past year. I would say 8 on a scale of 1 to 10 where as last year was about a 4.

I need to get my blood work done. There is a Quest diagnostics just around the corner. I'm going there tomorrow for a test.
No idea what to ask for but maybe they can help.
I'm thinking
Test, free test, estro, estro to test ratio.. any suggestions?

Red

 

[HondaV65]

I think you are overthinking things ...

A few months ago I was feeling lethargic ... like I had low T levels. I even thought my libido was dropping off. I'm 49 (50 in February) ... so I went for a blood test.

Well - it wasn't Low-T. In fact - the only thing high in all my bloods was testosterone (Total T = 950 ng/ml and Free = 34 ... the "high" specs for those are 850 and 24 respectively). SHBG was well within limits. Feeling "bad" or "tired" doesn't mean you have Low-T - this is why doctors can eat me - because they push this so you'll go in for HRT.

My bloods were taken after I had been off all compounds except DAA for about 40 days.

Now - I take 6 grams of DAA a day. 3 in the morning before workout and I'm drinking my last one right now before bed as I type this.

My bodyfat is between 11-13 percent conservatively.

I lift as heavy as I can - so heavy about every 5 weeks I hurt something and have to take almost a week off - or reduce training load.

Heavy compound lifts help produce testosterone - so that's all I do. I don't even know what a biceps curl is - that's an isolation move (I don't do them).

Don't analyze every thing you're doing - like how your piss stream is. If you're looking for problems - you will find them and they will worry and distract you. If something is wrong - IT WILL FIND YOU ... you won't have to look for it.

All that said ... the supplements I use ...

• Caffeine / Ephedrine HCL (I'll use this for two months straight and then knock off for a month)
• Erase (I'll use it for about 6 weeks ... then toss it aside and use something else)
• IGF-2 (I'll use this sometimes when I'm not using ERASE)
• Formula X DAA (6 grams a day ... and hell, I'll use it for four or five months straight then take a couple off)
• FISH OIL (12 mother humping grams a day - and I've been doing that for well over a year)
• ZINC (300 mg's a day)
• Vitamin C (3 grams a day)

Sometimes I'll try other things too ... like Powerful, Lean Extreme, HCGenerate (rarely), or Phytoserm 347 (once) ...

Some people will go ... "WTF? 6 Grams of daa?" or "WTF? 300mg's of Zinc?" I'm not advocating anyone else do this but this is what works for me.

This year I did two Epistane Cycles - one pulse for two weeks (first cycle I ever did) and one pulse for six weeks - no PCT needed though I did take some Torem for it.

I did two Ostarine Cycles - and that stuff is awesome. Not a lot of weight gain - but really nice recomp.

I did an experiment and ran Clomid for 6 weeks standalone - it was pretty awesome too.

In January - I'll be running ULTRADROL (Non-Pulsed) for 3 to 4 weeks. May run Osta in PCT.

I might add also ... I don't eat processed food.

I eat RED MEAT, WHITE Meat, and Fish along with nuts. I put milk in my protein shakes.

I think the key things for me are the diet, the fish oil, the zinc and the daa.

Everyone at work asks me about steroids - they ALL assume I'm on them even though I've never even hinted at it. But, if you put me in a room with 100 random 50 year olds from off the street - I would easily be fittest one in the room. Sometimes it gets tiring. Some dude came up to me in Home Depot last week and asked what football team I played for. "Seriously dude? I'm almost 50 years old." I went to an Italian restaurant and some bus boy slapped me on the back and yelled 'WWE!!" ... I almost decked him.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I always thought fish oil would be counter productive for test production especially at that 12 grams daily.

 

[kingdong]

I think you are overthinking things ...

A few months ago I was feeling lethargic ... like I had low T levels. I even thought my libido was dropping off. I'm 49 (50 in February) ... so I went for a blood test.

Well - it wasn't Low-T. In fact - the only thing high in all my bloods was testosterone (Total T = 950 ng/ml and Free = 34 ... the "high" specs for those are 850 and 24 respectively). SHBG was well within limits. Feeling "bad" or "tired" doesn't mean you have Low-T - this is why doctors can eat me - because they push this so you'll go in for HRT.

My bloods were taken after I had been off all compounds except DAA for about 40 days.

Now - I take 6 grams of DAA a day. 3 in the morning before workout and I'm drinking my last one right now before bed as I type this.

My bodyfat is between 11-13 percent conservatively.

I lift as heavy as I can - so heavy about every 5 weeks I hurt something and have to take almost a week off - or reduce training load.

Heavy compound lifts help produce testosterone - so that's all I do. I don't even know what a biceps curl is - that's an isolation move (I don't do them).

Don't analyze every thing you're doing - like how your piss stream is. If you're looking for problems - you will find them and they will worry and distract you. If something is wrong - IT WILL FIND YOU ... you won't have to look for it.

All that said ... the supplements I use ...

• Caffeine / Ephedrine HCL (I'll use this for two months straight and then knock off for a month)
• Erase (I'll use it for about 6 weeks ... then toss it aside and use something else)
• IGF-2 (I'll use this sometimes when I'm not using ERASE)
• Formula X DAA (6 grams a day ... and hell, I'll use it for four or five months straight then take a couple off)
• FISH OIL (12 mother humping grams a day - and I've been doing that for well over a year)
• ZINC (300 mg's a day)
• Vitamin C (3 grams a day)

Sometimes I'll try other things too ... like Powerful, Lean Extreme, HCGenerate (rarely), or Phytoserm 347 (once) ...

Some people will go ... "WTF? 6 Grams of daa?" or "WTF? 300mg's of Zinc?" I'm not advocating anyone else do this but this is what works for me.

This year I did two Epistane Cycles - one pulse for two weeks (first cycle I ever did) and one pulse for six weeks - no PCT needed though I did take some Torem for it.

I did two Ostarine Cycles - and that stuff is awesome. Not a lot of weight gain - but really nice recomp.

I did an experiment and ran Clomid for 6 weeks standalone - it was pretty awesome too.

In January - I'll be running ULTRADROL (Non-Pulsed) for 3 to 4 weeks. May run Osta in PCT.

I might add also ... I don't eat processed food.

I eat RED MEAT, WHITE Meat, and Fish along with nuts. I put milk in my protein shakes.

I think the key things for me are the diet, the fish oil, the zinc and the daa.

Everyone at work asks me about steroids - they ALL assume I'm on them even though I've never even hinted at it. But, if you put me in a room with 100 random 50 year olds from off the street - I would easily be fittest one in the room. Sometimes it gets tiring. Some dude came up to me in Home Depot last week and asked what football team I played for. "Seriously dude? I'm almost 50 years old." I went to an Italian restaurant and some bus boy slapped me on the back and yelled 'WWE!!" ... I almost decked him.

I would be afraid that much zinc might compete with some other nutrients. Just a tought.

I always thought fish oil would be counter productive for test production especially at that 12 grams daily.

How so?

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

No, I just thought that I read that somewhere. It sure isn't true in your case. I do like my bicep curls though:lol:

 

[RedRaptor]

Just a quick update.
Used DAA, Forma Stanzol and HCGenerate for 3 weeks and felt very happy with the results.
It went up then came down then leveled out at a very comfortable level.
I've been off of those for one week and a few days and I can feel the effects are gone.
Tomorrow I'm starting on DAA and Erase.
3grams DAA, 2 erase - 1am & 1pm

Red

 

[RedRaptor]

Just a quick update.
Used DAA, Forma Stanzol and HCGenerate for 3 weeks and felt very happy with the results.
It went up then came down then leveled out at a very comfortable level.
I've been off of those for one week and a few days and I can feel the effects are gone.
Tomorrow I'm starting on DAA and Erase.
3grams DAA, 2 erase - 1am & 1pm

Red

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

why did you only do that combo for 3 weeks?

 

[RedRaptor]

I only did 3 weeks because I have to return to Africa for work and didn't want to bring it here with me.
I've been stopped before and asked about some of the supps I bring. Didn't want any hassle in customs because the Forma is in an opened bottle and might draw too much attention. I get less hassle when the supps are in a new and sealed container.
I did bring DAA and Erase as well as Stinging nettle root which I want to try 2 grams per day.

 

[RedRaptor]

One week..
DAA 3g daily
Erase 1am & 1pm
Stinging nettle root 2g daily

Already I can tell that this combo is not as effective as the HCGenerate and Forma. No alpha male feeling, mild aggression, workouts are not as good and very little elevated mood as well as my libido is lower (better than it was without any supplements.. much better!)
I did incorporate more compound work in my workouts. Deadlifts and more squats. Maybe that will help.

Overall this combo is still better than I was without any supplements.
When I look back over my life I feel that my test level may be higher now, with supplements, than it was naturally for at least the past 10 to 15
I feel my test level is more a maintenance level than a growth level where as before it was more of a.. nada, zip, zilch level.

Of course none of this is scientific but only my opinion.
I will say for the skeptics that when you feel it, you will know what I'm talking about and until you've been here..

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

drop the stinging nettle and that should help things. stinging nettle will lower test conversion to DHT. you need DHT to be horny,elevate mood and have good workouts. drop it for a week and keep your DAA the same and the erase the same and see what happens.

 

[RedRaptor]

Just threw down on some Andro series.
AndroMass
AndroHard
AndroBulk
PCT
Gonna go for broke.

 

[RedRaptor]

Drop the stinging nettle?
Interesting. I was going to write that about 2 hours after I took the first dose of 1g of stinging nettle.. I got very horny!
I'll give it a shot but I read that Stinging nettle binds with SHBG to give you more free test as test can't bind to the SHBG if the receptors are full of stinging nettle already.
I'll give it a try and come back with the results shortly.
I have noticed that my strength is down, my endurance is down and my mood is lower. Not to mention that my nads have shrunk to the size of raisins!

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

wow good luck to you

 

[MattPorter]

Just threw down on some Andro series.
AndroMass
AndroHard
AndroBulk
PCT
Gonna go for broke.

How did you plan on running these products -- I may be able to assist you in planning this out.

-Matt

 

[RedRaptor]

Matt,
thanks for the post.
I welcome any help you can give.
I want to aim for the "Advanced Blasting Zone" or the "Blasting Zone" on the Androstat chart.
I was thinking 6 AM and 3 AH or 6AM and 6AB

Any recommendations??
Thanks
Red

 

[MattPorter]

Matt,
thanks for the post.
I welcome any help you can give.
I want to aim for the "Advanced Blasting Zone" or the "Blasting Zone" on the Androstat chart.
I was thinking 6 AM and 3 AH or 6AM and 6AB

Any recommendations??
Thanks
Red

Yes -- How is your body type....realistically? Are you a super hard gainer, really active throughout the day, nervous habits (biting nails, fidgeting) etc...I ask because these traits would make me say stack Am + AB at 12 total. If you are not a metabolic furnace, perhaps sensitive to surplus of calories, then having a AM+AH cycle may be best suited to keep DHT jacked high to help keep estrogen.progesterone lowered and aid in hard androgen receptor binding.

How would you describe your body type?

-Matt

 

[RedRaptor]

Matt,
I am the classic endomorph.
Even in high school when I was training for football it was difficult to add muscle and I never had much muscle definition. I was strong. Arm wrestling champ for my class and the class above me, and big but not defined. I take that back. My legs have always been big and in high school and even later I had good definition in my legs with muscle fibers visible at times depending on my fat level.
I have more muscle mass now than I had as a teenager but I've been training regular for almost two years.
Just the past year I've noticed that it is much easier to gain weight but it is all fat.
I recently adjusted my eating habits to bring my calorie intake down to about 2500 per day. I've dropped about 10 pounds in the last 6 weeks.

No nervous habits, not fidgety or hyper. More relaxed but not lazy. I don't sit in front of the TV. I work a physical job and have to keep moving though out the day.
Not a metabolic furnace and excess calories go straight to the spare tire and quickly!!

James

 

[RedRaptor]

Just to clear up the nettle root issue.

Nettle root extract has also shown an affinity for SHBG (Hryb DJ et al 1995). SHBG is closely related to levels of free testosterone and estrogen; most of these hormones travel through the bloodstream “bound” to SHBG. Any testosterone that is unbound to SHBG is referred to as free testosterone. Studies have shown that men with BPH have elevated levels of SHBG in their prostate gland (Jiang H et al 2004); thus, any nutrient that reduces SHBG levels may also be able to reduce BPH.

 

[RedRaptor]

Also

Nettle root extract may provide a unique mechanism for increasing levels of free testosterone by binding to SHBG, the globulin that inactivates sex hormones, therefore potentially increasing the amount of unbound, free testosterone (Lichius JJ et al 1997; Schottner M et al 1997; Gansser D et al 1995; Hryb DJ et al 1995; Hirano T et al 1994). Nettle root extract is used extensively, either in combination with saw palmetto or by itself, for relief of BPH symptoms.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

maybe I need some nettle then.

 

[RedRaptor]

18 days on DAA, Erase and Stinging nettle root.
Definitely not as effective as the DAA, Forma and HCGenerate.
Energy level is down, "give a chit" factor is down, strength is down, workouts are not that great, libido is down, aggression is down and I'm not having any alpha male feelings, in fact I'm kind of moody. About the only good thing I can say is that erections are rock hard.

One thing I noticed is that I get a headache almost every day around 3 or 4 pm and it stays with me until bed.
Feels like it's coming from my teeth. Strange.