THE END OF OLD AGE......L-carnosine

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    THE END OF OLD AGE......L-carnosine


    I'm surprised there not more talk on these forums on l-carnosine. I take ALCAR daily and love it but l-carnosine seems even better and more important to health.

    What Is Aging?

    The best place to start is at the beginning. What is aging? What makes us age? There are actually many factors that contribute to old age (free radical damage, hormonal changes, etc.), but of all of the things that make us “old,” two things stand out because until now, they have been so untouchable:

    The Hayflick Limit
    The glycation of proteins
    The Hayflick Limit: Cell Life Span

    The Hayflick Limit is named after the person who discovered it almost 40 years ago. A quick description is that all cells have only a limited capacity to continue to divide through the course of our lives.

    Those numbers are different for each type of cell in our body, and by early adulthood, half of those divisions have been used up. By mid-life, maybe only 20-39% of those divisions are left. At that point, old age starts taking over – then death.

    This limited capacity of a cell to perpetuate itself is called the Hayflick Limit. In effect, the Hayflick Limit determines life span at the cellular level. With each division, a cell becomes less likely to divide again, until finally it stops dividing altogether and becomes what we call senescent.

    Cell senescence is the final step before cell death. Senescent cells are still alive and metabolically active, but they're no longer capable of dividing. More importantly, though, senescent cells exhibit all of the characteristics that so bother us about old age, such as the difference between the supple skin of a child and the wrinkled skin of the elderly.

    How do cells age?

    As cells approach the Hayflick Limit, they divide less frequently and become aberrant. They take on wildly irregular forms. They no longer line up in parallel arrays; they assume a granular appearance, and deviate from their normal size and shape. This distorted appearance, called the senescent phenotype, is accompanied by a state of declining functionality that, UNTIL RECENTLY, was thought to be irreversible.

    Astounding News: Reverse Aging

    As it turns out, not only can we reverse the aging process at the cellular level now, and actually do it quite simply AND QUICKLY – but we can also reverse aging at the system level and the organ level. And for that matter, we can reverse it in terms of how we look and feel – and by that I mean our skin and hair and energy levels. And then, of course, we can even reverse aging in terms of lifespan.

    What's the Secret?

    The substance I'm talking about is L-carnosine. It's a naturally occurring combination of two amino acids, alanine and histadine, that was discovered in Russia in the early 1900s. Because much of the research was done in Russia, it has been largely unavailable in the United States until recently. Now, though, there have been a number of studies and experiments in other parts of the world verifying everything done in Russia – and more.

    Most notably, there were a series of astonishing experiments done in Australia that proved that carnosine rejuvenates cells as they approach senescence. Cells cultured with carnosine lived longer and retained their youthful appearance and growth patterns.

    What's probably the most exciting result of the studies is that it was discovered that carnosine can actually REVERSE the signs of aging in senescent cells.

    The Reversal of Aging

    When the scientists transferred senescent cells to a culture medium containing carnosine, those cells exhibited a rejuvenated appearance and often an enhanced capacity to divide. When they transferred the cells back to a medium lacking carnosine, the signs of senescence quickly reappeared.

    As they switched the cells back and forth several times between the culture media, they consistently observed that the carnosine medium restored the juvenile cell phenotype WITHIN DAYS, whereas the standard culture medium brought back the senescent cell phenotype.

    Increase Cell Life


    In addition, the carnosine medium increased cell life span -- even for old cells. When the researchers took old cells that had already gone through 55 divisions and transferred them to the carnosine medium, they survived up to 70 divisions, compared to only 57 to 61 divisions for the cells that were not transferred.

    This represents an increase in the number of cell divisions for each cell of almost 25%.

    But in terms of cell life, the increase was an astounding 300%. The cells transferred to the carnosine medium attained a life span of 413 days, compared to just 126 to 139 days for the control cells.

    Increase Life Expectancy

    This is mind-boggling. But so far, all we've talked about are cells. What does carnosine mean for actual life expectancy.

    A new Russian study on mice has shown that mice given carnosine are twice as likely to reach their maximum lifespan as untreated mice. The carnosine also significantly reduced the outward “signs of old age.”

    In effect, it made the mice look younger. 44% of the carnosine treated mice had young, glossy coats in old age as opposed to only 5% in the untreated mice. This represents 900% better odds of looking young in old age.

    Feel Young Again

    Another important difference between the treated and the untreated mice was in their behavior. Only 9% of the untreated mice behaved youthfully in old age, versus 58% of the carnosine treated mice. That's a 600% improvement in how they felt.

    Strong Antioxidant

    Quite simply, carnosine is one of the most powerful antioxidants known. It's a great heavy-metal scavenger. It's a powerful auto-regulator. And it stands alone when it comes to preventing and reversing protein glycation or cross-linking.

    Auto-Regulator

    Carnosine has the remarkable ability to throttle down bodily processes that are in a state of excess, and to ramp up those that are under expressed.

    For example, carnosine thins the blood of people whose blood tends to clot too much and increases the clotting tendency in those with a low clotting index.

    Another example is that carnosine suppresses excess immune responses in those who have “hyper” immune systems, whereas it stimulates the immune response in those with weakened immune systems – such as the aged.

    And carnosine even seems to have the ability to normalize brain wave functions.

    Protein Glycation: Sugar And Aging

    Glycation is the uncontrolled reaction of sugars with proteins. It's kind of like what happens to sugars when you heat them and they caramelize. In effect, glycation is what happens when excess sugars caramelize the proteins in your body. It's a major factor in the aging process – and it's particularly devastating to diabetics.

    Your body is mostly made up of proteins. In fact, proteins are the substances most responsible for the daily functioning of your body. That's why anything that causes protein deterioration has such a dramatic impact on the body's function and appearance.

    Thanks largely to the destructive effect of sugar and aldehydes, the protein in our bodies tends to undergo destructive changes as we age. This destruction is a prime factor, not only in the aging process itself, but also in the familiar signs of aging such as wrinkling skin, cataracts, and the destruction of our nervous system – particularly our brains. Studies show that carnosine is effective against all these forms of protein modification.

    Protein Modification for Longevity

    As I said, aging is associated with damage to cellular proteins. But carnosine protects cellular proteins from damage in at least two ways.

    First, it bonds with the carbonyl (or aldehyde) groups that if left alone will attack and bind with proteins.
    Second, it works as an antioxidant to prevent the formation of oxidized sugars, also called Advanced Glycosylation End-products or AGEs for short. That's really the caramelization thing that I mentioned earlier. The bottom line here is that the less AGEs, in your body, the younger you are.
    Both of these processes have important implications for anti-aging therapy. The key is that carnosine not only prevents damaging cross-links from forming, it eliminates cross-links that have previously formed in proteins, thus restoring normal membrane function.

    Alzheimer's

    Carnosine has been proven to reduce or completely prevent cell damage caused by beta amyloid, one of the prime protein risk factors for Alzheimers. The presence of beta amyloid leads to damage of the nerves and arteries of the brain. Carnosine blocks and inactivates beta amyloid. In effect, it protects neural tissues against dementia.* The key is that carnosine not only prevents damaging cross-links from forming in proteins, it eliminates cross-links that have previously formed in those proteins, thus restoring normal membrane function in cells. This is true not only in the brain, but in all the organs of our body – our skin included. Keep in mind that the damage you see in the skin is not just a cosmetic question. That damage is absolutely an indicator of the kinds of damage happening to every other organ in your body – including your eyes and your brain.

    The Reversal of Age
    Carnosine levels in our body directly correlate with both the length and quality of our lives. And since carnosine levels decline with age, supplementation with carnosine represents one of the most powerful things you can do to hold back the ravages of old age.

    Results

    While it is true that many people who supplement with carnosine are going to notice everything from younger looking skin to more energy, the bottom line is that you really shouldn't look for any short term benefits from carnosine supplementation. If any short-term benefits are noticed, you should consider them an added bonus.

    The reason you want to supplement with carnosine is for the long term, not for the short-term benefits that you may or may not notice. You supplement with carnosine to protect against the long-term ravages of aging.

    Using Carnosine

    Some experts recommend using only 50-100 mg of carnosine a day. Others say that if you don't take 1,000-1,500 mg a day it won't work because your body metabolizes the first 500 mg or so.

    The key here is that all of these experts are ignoring the simple fact, that different people need different amounts. For example:

    The older you get, the more you need.
    If you eat a mostly vegetarian diet, you need more.
    If you're diabetic, or just have trouble with blood sugar, you need more.
    I think most people will do best on 500-750 mg a day.

    If you're young and healthy and include meat in your diet, then 250 mg a day makes sense. As you get older, and if you're starting to show signs of aging or glycation (such as cataracts), then you'd want to think of increasing the dosage up to 1,000 mg a day – maybe even as high as 1,500 mg a day.

    Safety

    In studies, carnosine has been proven safe in amounts as high as 70, 80, or even 100 grams a day, although a small number of people have noticed some minor muscle twitching at doses as small as 1,000 mg. The bottom line is use what you need, and you won't have any problems – only benefits.

    Importance

    As I mentioned earlier, I don't believe in magic bullets. Everything I've ever learned says that you're only as strong as your weakest link. I still believe that improving your entire Baseline of Health® is the key to good health and long life.

    But that said, I think that once you actually understand what carnosine does – once you understand the role it plays in preventing and potentially reversing all of the signs of old age in the body (and we're talking about everything from wrinkled skin to cataracts to Alzheimer's) – heck, once you understand the role it plays in extending life itself – then you're left with the unmistakable conclusion that supplementing with carnosine may represent one of the single best things you can do to help "turn back your biological clock."

    A Missing Link

    As important as carnosine is, there is a "gap" in its usefulness. It's called lipofuscin.

    Lipofuscin is the age pigment commonly found in aging brains and in other tissue such as the skin. By itself, it is not dangerous. It is merely a byproduct of harmful reactions that have already taken place. For example, one of the byproducts of free radical damage and protein/aldehyde damage (both conditions that carnosine addresses) is lipofuscin.



    Lipofuscin deposits as seen in heart muscle

    When you supplement with carnosine, however, something different happens. The carnosine quickly binds with the aldehydes, preventing them from damaging the proteins. The byproduct of this reaction is lipofuscin. So once again you have inactive lipofuscin compounds, but this time as the result of PREVENTING protein damage. In a sense, with carnosine you trade protein damage for lipofuscin.

    As I said before, by itself, lipofuscin is not harmful. However, if enough of it accumulates over time (and this process is accelerated when you supplement with carnosine), it can interfere with proper cellular and organ functions. So the bottom line is that however it is produced (as a result of protein damage, or as the result of taking sacrificial carnosine to prevent protein damage), you want to get rid of it.
    DMAE

    By any definition, DMAE is the perfect companion to carnosine in an anti-aging formulation. First, it reinforces carnosine's own anti-aging properties. Then, it provides a whole series of complementary benefits of its own.

    What Is DMAE?

    DMAE is short for (dimethylaminoethanol), a naturally-occurring nutrient that enhances acetylcholine (ACh) synthesis. Adequate levels of ACh are important for proper memory function. Normally found in small amounts in our brains, DMAE has been shown to remarkably enhance brain function when used as a supplement in clinical studies.

    DMAE Reinforces Carnosine

    One of the prime actions of DMAE is that it flushes accumulated lipofuscin from your body – from the neurons in your brain, from your skin, and from all other organs. It also complements carnosine in that DMAE on its own has been shown to inhibit and reverse the Cross-Linking of proteins and extend lifespan.

    Many people have heard of the anti-aging results that Romanian scientist, Ana Aslan, achieved using something called GH3, or procaine. What most people do not know is that GH3 breaks down in the body to form DMAE (after first metabolizing into DEAE) and PABA. In other words, DMAE is the key active component in Ana Aslan's anti-aging formula.

    Numerous scientific studies now show that DMAE can help:

    Increase Acetylcholine levels and RNA levels in the brain
    Stimulate mental activity
    Increase attention span
    Increase alertness
    Increase intelligence (especially in children)
    Improve learning and memory
    Increase energy levels
    Provide a mild, safe tonic effect
    Stimulate the central nervous system
    Relieve anxiety
    Elevate mood in general
    Alleviate behavioral problems and hyperactivity associated with Attention Deficit Disorder
    Increase motivation and reduce apathy in persons suffering from depression
    Induce sounder sleep
    Over time reduce the amount of sleep required by about 1 hour per night
    Intensify dreams tremendously. (Even more so when you take it along with a large dose of phosphatidyl choline -- a key component of
    lecithin)
    Cause dreams to become more lucid
    Increase willpower
    Decrease the incidence and severity of hangovers in people who consume excessive amounts of Alcohol
    DMAE Is Safe

  2. Senior Member
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    Is NUTRAPLANET planning on carrying BULK l-carnosine?
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    Where to get it? Store, street, u!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Where to get it? Store, street, u!
    That was helpful....NOT!
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    Isn't Beta Alanine the cheap way to up carnosine in the body?
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    beta alanine isnt cheap IMO(and carnatine/carnosine supps really are)... but very effective...

    beta alanine is the orally bioavailable way to provide your body with more Alanine to combine with histadine... Its basically the rate limiting factor in your body to naturally produce more carnosine. by increasing the amount of alanine in your body you raise this rate limiting factor therefore raising the amount of carnosine that can be naturally produced...

    It does not detract from the benefits one could still get from supplementing with an outside source of carnatine/carnosine and also would be a good thing to take in conjunction with carnatine so that ones body can keep producing at a better rate long after supplementation has been ceased (I recently read a study that the benefits of BA supplementation are exhibited long after stopping use and the better you respond the longer it lasts.... wish I can remember where I read that so I could link it...)

    Either way, great article and a great reason to start supplementing carnatine/carnosine if you arent already.
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
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    Sourdough,

    That is a terrific article, and an important one.

    Bulk l-carnosine is not cheap and tends toward the expensive side. Carnatines are cheap in most forms, although I use either PLCAR or better GPLC when they are on sale. Bulk l-carnosine runs 6.5X as much in bulk over beta alanine(by weight comparison), which I can find a 60 day supply of beta alanine for close to $10. It runs just $25 for 500 grams on Nutra in bulk, and you only really need 3 grams a day.

    That said it's probably worth my while to pick up some bulk carnosine too, as I'm doing a major rejuvenation program right now. I would like to reverse my aging process by 4-5 years. I look about 10 years younger than I am now, and I'd like to look, and more important, actually physically be, in my mid-to-late-40's in most ways. Insulin resistance is one critical aspect as well as the mentioned glycation process that comes with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    beta alanine isnt cheap IMO(and carnatine/carnosine supps really are)... but very effective...

    beta alanine is the orally bioavailable way to provide your body with more Alanine to combine with histadine... Its basically the rate limiting factor in your body to naturally produce more carnosine. by increasing the amount of alanine in your body you raise this rate limiting factor therefore raising the amount of carnosine that can be naturally produced...

    It does not detract from the benefits one could still get from supplementing with an outside source of carnatine/carnosine and also would be a good thing to take in conjunction with carnatine so that ones body can keep producing at a better rate long after supplementation has been ceased (I recently read a study that the benefits of BA supplementation are exhibited long after stopping use and the better you respond the longer it lasts.... wish I can remember where I read that so I could link it...)

    Either way, great article and a great reason to start supplementing carnatine/carnosine if you arent already.
    L-carnosine and l-carnitine should not be confused to be similar. Each functions differently. Carnitine is much cheaper than Carnosine.
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    I did a quick check on a life extension forum about carnosine vs beta alanine. There was a lot of confusion on that forum as to what is best to use, and which one does what. My feeling is that beta alanine is a great sports supplement that buffers H+ ions and increases endurance, but carnosine is probably best for anti-glycation and life extension. There were two guys in their upper 60's who received excellent improvement from carnosine in the age related areas. They were both supplementing a gram per day.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    BTW, you can test your long term blood sugar with the HbA1C blood test. If you come in around 4.7 or less you don't have to worry much about glycation, but doctors will often tell you that you are fine at 6.0 or below. They are wrong. Even at my current A1C test results of 5.2, I notice the effects of glycation slowly advancing. My doc thinks my 5.2 is great, and very healthy for my age, but I think it's still bad. Some docs will even tell people they are "not bad" in the low 6's as in 6.2 or 6.3, especially if they have been diagnosed with Type 2. A huge amount of damage is happening at those levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    L-carnosine and l-carnitine should not be confused to be similar. Each functions differently. Carnitine is much cheaper than Carnosine.
    my bad, I was slightly confused with that part...
    iForceHemavol=He-man?-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/187487-hemavol-heman-doughs.htmlCompound 20 Beta log-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/185396-molding-dough-compound.html
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    The only thing Carnosine and Carnitine have in common is their latin root, carnis: meat/flesh/body. Think carnal/carnivore in english.

    I have been taking 5, size 00 caps of each for at least 5 years and swear by both. The carnosine I take in the form of Beta-Alanine because my body has more than enough Histidine and the Carnosine is 10 times MORE exensive. My best source on Carnosine would be Vitacost but even there it runs about $44 for 90 gms in caps. Here at NP I still buy my bulk B-A for $40 a kilo and my ALCAR for $60 a kilo and cap them myself.

    Beta-Alanine is what I combined with 5 caps of Taurine, another potent amino acid for the macula in our eyes, and Astaxanthin 10 mgs, some Zeaxanthin and Lutein 20 mgs to completely heal my eyesight. As I reported here a couple years ago, I went from 3.25 and 3.75 to 1.25 and 1.75 in a year and then to 20 - 20 the second year.

    I believe the recent article about the long lasting effects of B-A is "Beta-alanine effective for weeks after end of course" which is on Ergo-Log at http://www.ergo-log.com/betaalaninee...eforweeks.html

    Lucly, thanks for adding a great article for our use.
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    The most interesting part of this article is the addition of extra cell divisions over normal as that requires lengthening of telomeres. The only known substance to do this previously was derived from Astragalus, called TA-65.
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    Hi to Dutchman,

    I've been lurking on the board for a few weeks without posting so I am unable to send PMs at the moment.
    I would, however, like to know more about your eye therapy.
    My eyes have been going downhill with light tracers, small spots of distorted vision and declining resolution. Not to mention that my glasses are getting worse!
    Would you mind PMing me your therapy or pointing me to a thread where you outline your therapy or even pointing me to the source of your supplement choices.
    Thanks in advance
    James
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Beta-Alanine is what I combined with 5 caps of Taurine, another potent amino acid for the macula in our eyes, and Astaxanthin 10 mgs, some Zeaxanthin and Lutein 20 mgs to completely heal my eyesight. As I reported here a couple years ago, I went from 3.25 and 3.75 to 1.25 and 1.75 in a year and then to 20 - 20 the second year.
    Dutchman, do you take the Taurine and Beta-Alanine at the same time?

    I looked into this ages ago and read that Beta-Alanine depletes Taurine but could not find anything specific on dosing the two.

    Going to look into your "Astaxanthin, Zeaxanthin and Lutein" suggestion. Do you know of any products that have all 3 ingredients?
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    They compete for the same receptors, and it is better to take them at separate times.

    Although, it's my understanding that unless you take large doses of either one, taking them at the same time should still be effective.
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    I cap most of my own supplies and buy my bulk products from Nutra Planet. The Taurine andBeta-Alanine cap, after packing, at around 800 mgs per 00 gel cap. I take 5 of each (for 4 gms) although I know others who take more (usually 5 gms). I have always taken them at the same time. There was some mention about taking them together but IIRC that didn't turn out to hold water very well. Certainly not in my personal experience. I used to buy the Lutein from Sam's Club (was the best price around) and use 3(20 mg) caps ED for around 60 total mgs. Now I just get Vitacost’s 20 mg Luteinwith Zeaxanthin and that sems to be enough. Nowadays I stick to only one 20 mg combo cap. I also take one small gel cap of Astaxanthin ED (10mg). The Astaxanthin has so many secondary effects that it is really one of the 3 or 4 most important sups we can take. It even doubles the time I can stay out in the sun without burning. I buy all these from Vitacost.com because I love their products especially their in-house Vitacost brand for its great quality and low, low price. One other element of importance would be that I am a firm believer in megadosing Omega 3s. I use Sam's Club's triple strength Fish Oil (ie 900 mgs of Omega 3)and take 3 caps 2X a day.


    You might google these various vitamins and you will usually find some reference to their eyesight properties. I did that and also checked out the most popular brands of eye drops being marketed for tons of dollars. Then I went off and crafted my own. I am still, years later, a very happy puppy! Good luck!Dutch
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    Dutchman,

    Good stuff on the eyes. How long had you had less than good vision with your eyes before starting this supplement combo? Was it a long-term decline or relatively new?
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    Tuberman, I had trouble just reading by the time I hit 40. By 50 I was wearing big, tri-focals. In my early 60s I needed help even when wearing glasses, to see where my golf ball was headed,or landed. I am a committed natural health freak aka as "The Village Shaman" or "The Village Witchdoctor", pick one. I take 70+ pills a day and am in exceptional good health. I had been taking the Beta-Alanine along with my Creatine Mono and the Taurine to help me recover during and after my workouts. I noticed some slight improvement and when I stumbled over Astaxanthin, the chase was on. Some use Bilberry and other things too but this worked out great for me. My Opthamalogists were/are at a loss for words other than to say "You are still 20/20". They claim to have never seen someone over 60 reverse his eyesight problem naturally. Of course, if such info spread, that would not be good for their incomes either. It was this plus similar results for friends and family with other natural health combos for Atrial Fibrulation, Arthritis, Dementia, even slowing my late wife's cancer (prognoses was 3 months but she added almost a year to that) that put me over the top and made me go ape over natural approaches. So now I am certainly old at 70, in the eyes of the AMA and FDA certainly insane and in the eyes of those around me here, the guy they call "the animal" or "ironman" for my strength and health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Tuberman, I had trouble just reading by the time I hit 40. By 50 I was wearing big, tri-focals. In my early 60s I needed help even when wearing glasses, to see where my golf ball was headed,or landed. I am a committed natural health freak aka as "The Village Shaman" or "The Village Witchdoctor", pick one. I take 70+ pills a day and am in exceptional good health. I had been taking the Beta-Alanine along with my Creatine Mono and the Taurine to help me recover during and after my workouts. I noticed some slight improvement and when I stumbled over Astaxanthin, the chase was on. Some use Bilberry and other things too but this worked out great for me. My Opthamalogists were/are at a loss for words other than to say "You are still 20/20". They claim to have never seen someone over 60 reverse his eyesight problem naturally. Of course, if such info spread, that would not be good for their incomes either. It was this plus similar results for friends and family with other natural health combos for Atrial Fibrulation, Arthritis, Dementia, even slowing my late wife's cancer (prognoses was 3 months but she added almost a year to that) that put me over the top and made me go ape over natural approaches. So now I am certainly old at 70, in the eyes of the AMA and FDA certainly insane and in the eyes of those around me here, the guy they call "the animal" or "ironman" for my strength and health.
    Nice info Dutchman, thank you!

    Just read up on your recommendation of Axastanthin.....amazing supplement. Thanks again. Do you have any other recommendations for amazing supplements for health, feeling good, looking good, thinking better and clearer etc.
    Simply put what would be your top 10 suppliment recommendations. It appears axastanthin and l-carnosine and Alcar would be among them as well as fish oils.
    thanks in advance.

    Lucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Nice info Dutchman, thank you!

    Just read up on your recommendation of Axastanthin.....amazing supplement. Thanks again. Do you have any other recommendations for amazing supplements for health, feeling good, looking good, thinking better and clearer etc.
    Simply put what would be your top 10 suppliment recommendations. It appears axastanthin and l-carnosine and Alcar would be among them as well as fish oils.
    thanks in advance.

    Lucky
    Lucky,

    I guess I have to cheat and make it my favorite Baker's Dozen. I have spentwith no exaggeration, thousands of hours over the last couple decades trying tounderstand Mother Nature/God's Gifts etc. As a result, this nature loving,ex-seminarian firmly believes that Big Pharma is Bad and only God is Good! Iknow I sound hokey to the youngsters today but c'est la vie! Enjoy!


    Dutch’sDirty (Baker’s) Dozen of Vitamins

    I take dozens of different things but the followinglist consists of the most important to me. They all have some impact on my physical performance in the gym as theyaffect in some way strength/energy/recovery/metabolism etc. Butthey all make the list because they exert tremendous influence on my health,immune system, brain, heart, eyesight, joints, memory. They do a great job against the greatestthreats we face.
    1. Vitamin D3 15,000 IUs
    2. Omega 3s 3 – 6 gms
    3. Astaxanthin 10 mgs
    4. Ubiquinol(CoQH) 100 mgs
    5. Curcumin(Turmeric) 1 gm
    6. Green Tea Extract 2-3 gms
    7. Creatine 4 – 5 gms
    8. Beta-Alanine(Carnosine) 4 – 5 gms
    9. ALCAR 4 gms
    10. ALA 600mgs
    11. Coconut Oil 3 tbspns
    12. Cissus 1.5 gms @ 10% or 2.5 gms @ 5%
    13. Resveritrol (2 glasses of Cab or Merlot)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    It was this plus similar results for friends and family with other natural health combos for Atrial Fibrulation, Arthritis, Dementia, even slowing my late wife's cancer (prognoses was 3 months but she added almost a year to that) that put me over the top and made me go ape over natural approaches. So now I am certainly old at 70, in the eyes of the AMA and FDA certainly insane and in the eyes of those around me here, the guy they call "the animal" or "ironman" for my strength and health.
    Natural approaches are the best, and I too, have been convinced of this for years. I share your contempt for Big Pharm. What was your advice for Atrial Fibrulation. I'm already taking your advice for the eye program. And thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Lucky,

    I guess I have to cheat and make it my favorite Baker's Dozen. I have spentwith no exaggeration, thousands of hours over the last couple decades trying tounderstand Mother Nature/God's Gifts etc. As a result, this nature loving,ex-seminarian firmly believes that Big Pharma is Bad and only God is Good! Iknow I sound hokey to the youngsters today but c'est la vie! Enjoy!


    Dutch’sDirty (Baker’s) Dozen of Vitamins

    I take dozens of different things but the followinglist consists of the most important to me. They all have some impact on my physical performance in the gym as theyaffect in some way strength/energy/recovery/metabolism etc. Butthey all make the list because they exert tremendous influence on my health,immune system, brain, heart, eyesight, joints, memory. They do a great job against the greatestthreats we face.
    1. Vitamin D3 15,000 IUs
    2. Omega 3s 3 – 6 gms
    3. Astaxanthin 10 mgs
    4. Ubiquinol(CoQH) 100 mgs
    5. Curcumin(Turmeric) 1 gm
    6. Green Tea Extract 2-3 gms
    7. Creatine 4 – 5 gms
    8. Beta-Alanine(Carnosine) 4 – 5 gms
    9. ALCAR 4 gms
    10. ALA 600mgs
    11. Coconut Oil 3 tbspns
    12. Cissus 1.5 gms @ 10% or 2.5 gms @ 5%
    13. Resveritrol (2 glasses of Cab or Merlot)


    Great info, thanks Dutchman!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Lucky,

    I guess I have to cheat and make it my favorite Baker's Dozen. I have spentwith no exaggeration, thousands of hours over the last couple decades trying tounderstand Mother Nature/God's Gifts etc. As a result, this nature loving,ex-seminarian firmly believes that Big Pharma is Bad and only God is Good! Iknow I sound hokey to the youngsters today but c'est la vie! Enjoy!


    Dutch’sDirty (Baker’s) Dozen of Vitamins

    I take dozens of different things but the followinglist consists of the most important to me. They all have some impact on my physical performance in the gym as theyaffect in some way strength/energy/recovery/metabolism etc. Butthey all make the list because they exert tremendous influence on my health,immune system, brain, heart, eyesight, joints, memory. They do a great job against the greatestthreats we face.
    1. Vitamin D3 15,000 IUs
    2. Omega 3s 3 – 6 gms
    3. Astaxanthin 10 mgs
    4. Ubiquinol(CoQH) 100 mgs
    5. Curcumin(Turmeric) 1 gm
    6. Green Tea Extract 2-3 gms
    7. Creatine 4 – 5 gms
    8. Beta-Alanine(Carnosine) 4 – 5 gms
    9. ALCAR 4 gms
    10. ALA 600mgs
    11. Coconut Oil 3 tbspns
    12. Cissus 1.5 gms @ 10% or 2.5 gms @ 5%
    13. Resveritrol (2 glasses of Cab or Merlot)


    This is a great stack for overall health I must say.
    Reps coming your way
    RecoverBro ELITE
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    Carnosine is virtually tasteless (but the half life is SHORT) so buy it in powder form and simply dump into P-shakes and water and anything else to get frequent dosing. Sprinkle it on food (not before cooking) and you will never know the difference.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Carnosine is virtually tasteless (but the half life is SHORT) so buy it in powder form and simply dump into P-shakes and water and anything else to get frequent dosing. Sprinkle it on food (not before cooking) and you will never know the difference.
    Where can we buy it in bulk?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Where can we buy it in bulk?
    Buying Carnosine in bulk is prohibitively expensive. The key point to remember is that Carnosine is a di-peptide made up of two parts, Histidine, which your body posesses in overabundance and Beta-Alanine, the stores of which diminish as you age, like some other things LOL. When you take in the expensive Carnosine, all that happens is that the body either eliminates it or breaks it down into Beta-Alanine and Histidine. Estimates are that Carnosine only contains 40% B-A to begin with so ingesting it is a terrible waste of money. I gave my source and the price above for buying B-A in bulk. NP has been extremely reliable and cheap, with their powder for many years.
    Here is one of many similar overviews: http://www.betaalanine.info/
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Where can we buy it in bulk?
    Don't know if I am allowed to post links like these, but here goes:
    http://purebulk.com/l-carnosine
    https://www.smartpowders.com/p-5263-carnosine-powder-50-gram.aspx

    I
    will follow Dutchman's advice and go for beta alanine though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    Natural approaches are the best, and I too, have been convinced of this for years. I share your contempt for Big Pharm. What was your advice for Atrial Fibrulation. I'm already taking your advice for the eye program. And thanks!
    Tuberman, remember I am not a Dr. although I do have my Masters and over 45 hours of grad credit beyond that in another discipline and I stayed at a Holiday Express. I have made my health and natural support for same my avocation for decades. Some 5 and 6 years ago after hearing and reading mention of AFib relief, I started to see articles in English and German that referred to Omega 3s and Amino Acids being used. They then coalesced in a couple of good articles in LEF which I then explained to my late wife and my best bud who both had suffered from AFib for over 15 years. I got them both on megadoses ie minimum of 3 gms daily of Omega 3s, 200 mgs daily of Ubiquinol or the equivalent in the then available Ubiquinone (aka CoQ10). Along with that they started on 600 mgs of RYR (Red Yeast Rice) which they both eventually at the advice of their cardiologists upped to 2 X 600 mgs. I got them to also try 4 gms each of Taurine and AAKG (Arginine Alpha KetoGlutarate) and 600 mgs of ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid). Again, I prescribed nothing but they after reading up on materials I collected, decided they wanted to try a non-medication, all-natural approach. Six months later they were both AFib free. My wife stayed that way until her death and my bud is now using nauturals and has also regained 40% of his memory lost to Dementia from a couple tours with Agent Orange in the 60s.
    The following articles may be informative for you. Good luck and God Bless!

    Congestive Heart Failure, The Exception to Our Success?
    http://www.garynullforum.com/article...%20Failure.pdf


    Alleviating Congestive Heart Failure with Coenzyme Q10

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/...yme-Q10_01.htm

    AvertingArrhythmias with Omega-3 Fatty Acids

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/...y-Acids_01.htm

    Common Irregular Heartbeats are Completely Normalized by Taurine and Arginine
    http://www.naturalnews.com/026380_ta...#ixzz1cNQXHu3j


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    Beyond-a-centrury.com too

    Quote Originally Posted by tWack View Post
    Don't know if I am allowed to post links like these, but here goes:
    http://purebulk.com/l-carnosine
    https://www.smartpowders.com/p-5263-carnosine-powder-50-gram.aspx

    I
    will follow Dutchman's advice and go for beta alanine though!
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Beyond-a-centrury.com too
    And their price is then $438 per 1000 gms with Pure Bulk being $505 and Smart Powders which is normally $500, now on sale for only $350 all vs Nutra Planets $40 for Beta-Alanine. This is a perfect example of the 10 to 1 cost differential.
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    Dutchman,

    Thanks again for info. I'll read it later as I'm working three long days in a row in prep before I take a bunch of days off.
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    Been reading a lot of fantastic things about Pregnenalone. Felt amazing when I was using Dermacrine which had it as an ingredient.


    GOOD READ.......

    Pregnenolone – The Mother of all Steroid Hormones!
    Pregnenolone is a naturally occurring metabolite that is made in your body. It is often referred to as the ‘mother steroid compound’ because it is the basic raw material for all steroid hormones in the body. This includes cortisone, Progesterone, estrogen, testosterone and DHEA.
    Although it’s the precursor of all steroid hormones, Pregnenolone itself is not a steroid hormone. Instead, Pregnenolone is made from cholesterol in the cells of both the adrenal gland and the central nervous system. Inside each cell there are 1000’s of mitochondria (tiny power plants) and it is inside these mitochondria that Pregnenolone is produced.
    Pregnenolone has been studied since the 1940’s. Experiments conducted in the 1940's and 1950's found Pregnenolone could not only increase the productivity levels and reduce the stress of factory workers, but was also an excellent anti-inflammatory medication for conditions such as arthritis and allergies.
    Research into cortisol at around the same time resulted in Pregnenolone being somewhat over looked by the scientific community. This meant that despite having recognised health benefits, it did not become as popular as it might otherwise have been and its use medically was effectively phased out.
    By the 1990’s interest in Pregnenolone had been rekindled when several experiments using mice, indicated that memory and stress might have significant links with the metabolite.
    The chemical pathways that use Pregnenolone as the precursor in the production of steroid hormones and, indeed, the interrelationships between these hormones themselves, are complex. Optimal levels of Pregnenolone are important for mental health and ability. Sometimes it is the direct action of Pregnenolone that is beneficial, whereas in other situations the benefits of Pregnenolone flow not from the Pregnenolone itself but from the fact that it is has been used to produce other steroid hormones. Just how much Pregnenolone is used as Pregnenolone or is converted into other hormones depends on a number of factors, not least being your gender. Life-style issues such as diet, stress and exercise, as well as certain diseases and the stage of life that you are at also appear to be determining factors.
    Age also plays its part. As we grow older, so the amount of Pregnenolone that we produce reduces. By age 70, Pregnenolone levels have typically declined by as much as 60%. Stress, depression, hypothyroidism and toxin exposure also lead to reduced levels. And with reducing levels, comes the need to supplement the body’s supply.
    What is pregnenolone supplementation used for?
    Although the actual way Pregnenolone works is not fully understood, using Pregnenolone as a supplement can have a number of effects. Pregnenolone appears to share many of its effects on the body with cortisol in that it can:
    Reduce allergic reactions
    Act as “a stress buffer”
    Lessen arthritis inflammation
    However, whereas cortisol can have negative side effects, Pregnenolone is amazingly well tolerated. Pregnenolone is also known to enhance memory and improve mood and energy levels. Below we look at some of the benefits of Pregnenolone supplementation in more detail.
    Memory Enhancement
    It has long been reported that one of the leading benefits of Pregnenolone supplementation is the enhancement of memory, well in excess of the memory enhancing effects of other substances. Its role in memory enhancement appears to lie in its ability to assist in the acquisition of knowledge and the long term memory of learned behaviour and it does all of this at lower doses than those required by other steroids and steroid precursors such as DHEA. Indeed, in a clinical study carried out in 1995, Pregnenolone was shown to be a potent memory enhancer – possibly 100 times more effective than DHEA.
    Fatigue Buster
    As far back as the research that was carried out in the 1940’s, Pregnenolone was shown to have fatigue busting capabilities. Even a dose of 1mg a day can improve the quality of sleep and decrease intermittent wakefulness in otherwise healthy young individuals.
    Energy levels are also boosted because Pregnenolone protects the energy producing mitochondria in our cells from potentially damaging toxins. This is because Pregnenolone enhances the activity of the cytochrome P450 detoxifying enzymes. These enzymes assist our cells, particularly those in the liver and the brain, to detoxify a whole range of toxins.
    Stress Reliever
    Pregnenolone may help to reduce your stress levels as it is thought that Pregnenolone may play a part in the neuro-endocrine response to stress. It may act to reduce the age-increasing effects of cortisol and induce a better state of relaxation.
    Certainly clinical studies have shown clearly that Pregnenolone acts as a stress reliever. For example, research carried out in the 1940’s and 1950’s demonstrated that Pregnenolone reduced the stress of factory workers, with the added bonus of increased productivity. A study of aeroplane pilots subjected to stressful situations also revealed that 25mg of Pregnenolone taken twice a day improved performance without causing adverse side effects. In a study of the stress response in rats, the administration of Pregnenolone appeared to increase the animals’ anxiety. While you may think that this is not a good thing, the researchers suggested this was actually a beneficial response during a stressful period and was thought to have been initiated through the nervous system.
    Anti Depressant and Mood Enhancer
    Research has revealed that people currently suffering from depression or with a history of depression have significantly lower levels of Pregnenolone in the fluid around the brain than those found in healthy people. Indeed, those people with active depression were found to have lower levels of Pregnenolone than those with a history of depression. This shouldn’t be that surprising as steroid hormones (which are synthesized from Pregnenolone) are known to affect mood and behaviour via effects on the nervous system. Pregnenolone has proven itself to be both a mood enhancer and a mild anti-depressant.
    Arthritis Treatment and the Treatment of other Rheumatological Diseases
    Pregnenolone has been used since the 1940’s as an alternative to mainstream medications for the treatment of arthritis. Indeed, it is almost as synonymous with treating arthritis as cod liver oil.
    Many arthritis sufferers find Pregnenolone particularly effective in treating the inflammation in their joints that they experience with the disease. Studies have confirmed the effects of Pregnenolone on arthritis. In one trial 6 out of 11 people suffering from rheumatoid arthritis experienced moderate to marked improvement in joint pain and mobility after receiving intramuscular injections of 50-600mg of Pregnenolone daily. In another study involving 13 osteoarthritis sufferers, Pregnenolone reduced pain and improved mobility in 7 of the patients. The pain reoccurred once the Pregnenolone therapy was stopped. Another study highlighted the substantial benefits of Pregnenolone therapy patients with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), psoriasis and scleroderma.
    Women’s Health
    Pregnenolone may offer many post-menopausal women a natural oestrogen replacement therapy. This is because Pregnenolone converts into DHEA which in turn converts into oestrogens. Pregnenolone can also provide a natural source for progesterone, another important hormone for female reproductive health, and one which is particularly useful in controlling PMS. The added advantage of Pregnenolone therapy when compared with DHEA treatment is that there is a reduced risk of experiencing distressing masculinizing side effects such as increasing facial hair because Pregnenolone is less likely to lead to an increase in testosterone levels.
    Nerve Regeneration
    Various parts of nerve cells are insulated by a membrane called the myelin sheath which acts to prevent “short circuiting” or the loss of neural transmission. Research involving mice has demonstrated that either Pregnenolone or progesterone supplementation promotes myelin formation during nerve regeneration. It maybe therefore that Pregnenolone therapy has a place in the treatment of diseases involving demyelination, such as multiple sclerosis.
    So although the actions of Pregnenolone are not yet fully understood, it can be seen that its effects are far reaching. For many, the fact that it is a natural substance will be appealing. What is even more exciting is that Pregnenolone does not seem to have any negative side effects.
    Dosage
    Dosage is dependent upon the reason for taking Pregnenolone:
    For anti- ageing purposes - daily doses of about 25mg (maximum 50mg) are suggested
    For arthritis - daily doses should be in the region of 100mg to 300mg
    For senile dementia - daily doses of 300mg to 600mg
    For mood enhancement and as an anti depressant - daily doses of 50mg to 200mg
    For enhancement of detoxifying enzymes - daily doses of 25mg to 200mg per day
    Caution and Warnings
    Because Pregnenolone has antagonistic effects on what are known as GABA receptors in the central nervous system, Pregnenolone supplementation may cause problems in people with a history of seizures.
    Pregnenolone can convert into any number of different metabolites and there isn't at present a definite way of ensuring the precise ones you want. Pregnenolone supplementation may therefore increase the levels of progesterone and DHEA and possibly levels of other hormones such as testosterone and estradiol. In our experience Pregnenolone is less likely to convert directly into testosterone than DHEA. Some testosterone may convert into estrogen. To help prevent this the use of an estrogen detoxification agent such as DIM with regular Pregnenolone use is recommended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Dosage is dependent upon the reason for taking Pregnenolone:
    For anti- ageing purposes - daily doses of about 25mg (maximum 50mg) are suggested
    For arthritis - daily doses should be in the region of 100mg to 300mg
    For senile dementia - daily doses of 300mg to 600mg
    For mood enhancement and as an anti depressant - daily doses of 50mg to 200mg
    For enhancement of detoxifying enzymes - daily doses of 25mg to 200mg per day
    Interesting..

    I find the dosing recommendations slightly confusing.. Would a dose of 100mg be pro-aging somehow? Anyhow, I see a dose of 100mg ED would be an intersting addition possibly..
    Anybody got any personal experience with this stuff?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano


    I have been taking ERASE as a standalone to lower estrogen as I am now 49 years young. I swear my testosterone is increasing. No blood work to prove but much stronger and more defined, better libido etc.

    In my research to lower the negative effects of Estrogen in aging males I came across Progesterone. In searching here on AM, I discovered many here feel it promotes Estrogen or femininity as it is a hormone primary taken by women to regulate their cycles and for menopause. Further research has led me many articles such as the following. Could it be that AM has this misunderstood hormone backwards and it actually lowers Estrogen. Everything I am reading indicates yes. Maybe it is only effective in controlling estrogen in aging Males not young males.

    Anyone have knowledge or experience here? READ THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE..................




    Progesterone: For men?

    Not only do men need estrogen, but also progesterone. In fact, progesterone helps counteract the effects of estrogen on the male body. As men age and testosterone levels decline, estrogen levels begin to rise and when they do it's typical for men to deal with weight gain, muscle loss, low libido and fatigue. In a lot of ways progesterone helpsmen maintain their edge.
    Progesterone Levels in Men
    Why progesterone for men?
    When many of us think of progesterone, we think of it as being a hormone strictly for women. However, men need progesterone too. Progesterone helps to counteract the effects of estrogen on the male body. Not only is progesterone found in males, but men rely on the alleged "female hormone" to preserve their masculinity. In fact, progesterone is a precursor to testosterone - the male sex hormone. As men age and testosterone begins to decline, estrogen levels steadily rise. As estrogen levels increase, progesterone levels plummet.
    Symptoms of low progesterone in men include:
    Low libido
    Hair loss
    Weight gain
    Fatigue
    Depression
    Gynecomastia ("man-boobs")
    Erectile dysfunction
    Impotence· Bone loss
    Muscle loss
    In addition, men with low levels of progesterone have a higher risk of developing health conditions, such as osteoporosis, arthritis, prostatism and prostate cancer.
    Estrogen dominance
    Estrogen dominance is a term coined by hormones expert Dr. John R. Lee, and it describes a condition where a woman (or in this case, man) has more estrogen than progesterone. Even if a man's estrogen levels are low, it is still possible that he will experience symptoms of estrogen dominance. The main cause of estrogen dominance in men is exposure to xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens? which are hormone-mimicking chemicals found in consumer-based products and even in the air we breathe. In addition to environmental factors, other causes of estrogen dominance in men include alcoholism, obesity, chronic stress and glandular dysfunction.
    In addition to testing testosterone levels, men should also consider having other hormones tested to get a clearer picture of what's going inside their bodies. This includes estrogen, progesterone, cortisol, DHEA and thyroid hormones. Hormonal balance is like a jig-saw puzzle - without all of the pieces in place, it just doesn't work.
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    Lucky, I have been using an all-natural, bio-identical progesterone cream for men for 7 or 8 years at least. I have brought the topic up of how good it is for managing estrogen and preventing prostate cancer both on AM and BB and nicely or not so, been told I was full of it. I stopped talking about it because of people already being omniscient and not needing to hear about new facts. Actually it's probably a pretty well known fact for about a decade by now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Lucky, I have been using an all-natural, bio-identical progesterone cream for men for 7 or 8 years at least. I have brought the topic up of how good it is for managing estrogen and preventing rostate cancer both on AM and BB and nicely or not so, been told I was full of it. I stopped talking about it because of people already being omniscient and not neeeding to hear about new facts. Actually it's probably a pretty well known fact for about a decade by now.
    Hi Dutchman.
    Good to hear I am not going crazy. Sometimes there seems to be too much Bro-science circulating.
    I looked at my wife's progesterone cream from NOW and it had a warning that progesterone is known in California to cause cancer and I have read quite the opposite. Any idea why that is?

    Also, I tried a dab this morning, felt a sort of alertness. Good feeling.
    What exactly do you notice from it and would it not be better to take pregnenolone since it is the mother of all Steroid hormones? Pregnenolone converts into what ever hormone you body is requiring at that time. Said to be safer that a bio-identical or specific hormone treatment. What's your thoughts or experience.
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    I have a doc appointment next week. My lab work will be in at that time. I hope he hooks me up with the the prego roid but I dont think he will if I'm taking Tess e and deca. This is my first cycle. Hey, what do you think about tren e to add into the mix. I am afraid I am doing to much for the first cycle. But then I don't understand why you shouldn't rip it up!! Anything?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Hi Dutchman.
    Good to hear I am not going crazy. Sometimes there seems to be too much Bro-science circulating.
    I looked at my wife's progesterone cream from NOW and it had a warning that progesterone is known in California to cause cancer and I have read quite the opposite. Any idea why that is?

    Also, I tried a dab this morning, felt a sort of alertness. Good feeling.
    What exactly do you notice from it and would it not be better to take pregnenolone since it is the mother of all Steroid hormones? Pregnenolone converts into what ever hormone you body is requiring at that time. Said to be safer that a bio-identical or specific hormone treatment. What's your thoughts or experience.
    As I said, I stopped fighting that war here years ago. IIRC Progesterone comes from wild yams and has been around for generations and is bio-identical to what our bodies make. The stuff you are talking about is just another case of the media on TV and in print not doing their homework. A few years ago they developed proof that the synthetic progestins (non bio-identical) made by Big Pharma which have earned them gazillions were very dangerous. Basically it is a non-natural attempt to manufacture a sort of "progesterone" (as they and their minions liked to/still called it). I think it was made from horse piss (pregnant mares IIRC???) or some such. The big names like Provera and Primarin dropped like rocks in the market but are still legal thanks to the wonderful FDA. Tests have repeatedly proven however that the same problems DO NOT EXIST with the natural progesterone. It's just that Big Pharma won't let their mass media which lives off their advertising, nor their FDA departments make the distinction because that would not be good for their bottom line.

    FWIW, several years ago I switched to buying mine at Vitacost and use the "Life-Flo Progest-Care Men's Formula" which costs $18.49 per 3 oz tube and it gives me a measured (10 mg) dose ( ie a little less than half the typical women's dosage) for about 2 months per.

    From Dr Lee 10 years ago who really broke this market open, there have been tons of Docs who recommend natural progesterone for men. I like it because it helps me to avoid prostate cancer, helps control my enlarged prostate all by knocking down my Estrogen levels and hence supporting my testosterone level. Between the natural Progesterone, the Test Cyp from my VA DOcs and now also using RS-Transaderm to bump up my DHEA and Pregnenalone, I think I have found the perfect trifecta for my health and my workouts. I am a happy old puppy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    As I said, I stopped fighting that war here years ago. IIRC Progesterone comes from wild yams and has been around for generations and is bio-identical to what our bodies make. The stuff you are talking about is just another case of the media on TV and in print not doing their homework. A few years ago they developed proof that the synthetic progestins (non bio-identical) made by Big Pharma which have earned them gazillions were very dangerous. Basically it is a non-natural attempt to manufacture a sort of "progesterone" (as they and their minions liked to/still called it). I think it was made from horse piss (pregnant mares IIRC???) or some such. The big names like Provera and Primarin dropped like rocks in the market but are still legal thanks to the wonderful FDA. Tests have repeatedly proven however that the same problems DO NOT EXIST with the natural progesterone. It's just that Big Pharma won't let their mass media which lives off their advertising, nor their FDA departments make the distinction because that would not be good for their bottom line.

    FWIW, several years ago I switched to buying mine at Vitacost and use the "Life-Flo Progest-Care Men's Formula" which costs $18.49 per 3 oz tube and it gives me a measured (10 mg) dose ( ie a little less than the typical women's dosage) for about 2 months per.

    From Dr Lee 10 years ago who really broke this market open, there have been tons of Docs who recommend natural progesterone for men. I like it because it helps me to avoid prostate cancer, helps control my enlarged prostate all by knocking down my Estrogen levels and hence supporting my testosterone level. Between the natural Progesterone, the Test Cyp from my VA DOcs and now also using RS-Transaderm to bump up my DHEA and Pregnenalone, I think I have found the perfect trifecta for my health and my workouts. I am a happy old puppy!
    wow, good post. I am taking transaderm but I notice more bloat on it. no other estrogen sides though. Progesterone cream eh? something to look into in the future for me I think
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