Need some guidance, trying to get back.

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    Need some guidance, trying to get back.


    I'm 46, and weigh 232lbs. I'm grumpy, lethargic and have no desire for sex or at best some, with issues of my erection getting fully hard.
    In the past I've been put on androgel for low testosterone. but have since tested ok for normal levels of testosterone, which I am not sure what the doctor saw as normal. Didn't see the results. Today I got my blood drawn for testosterone testing. We'll see how that goes.

    I am overweight, and have tried losing the weight but get estremely exhausted after working out for a few days afterward. I eat pretty good, my GF is a CNC, and feeds me right. I eat too much chocolate at night which is getting cut out.

    I was thinking that the way I feel is how I felt before when my testosterone was low. and decided to do some supplements for this and to gain muscle and lose the belly fat.
    The doctor wants me on high blood pressure meds, but I think if I lose the weight I will be ok.

    Currently I am taking 200mg of DHEA a day, and have felt much better but still not quite there yet.

    I stopped taking the DHEA for a week and started to feel even worse until I started taking it again.

    Please give me some guidance, I have info overload being on this board as I have been reading none stop for 2 days straight.

    my thoughts on supplements are here:

    On top of my DHEA:

    either 6-oxo (androstenetrione)
    or
    7-oxo (7-keto) DHEA metabolite?

    and Formestane


    I am not sure what all the abbreviations/acronyms said on here mean.

    So I am wondering, what would you suggest? Is any of these banned or are they all still available? I see some are but is 6-oxo available?
    can I buy it locally as I would like to start like..today. hahahaha

    I am including some pictures. me at 34, 38 and 46. You'll see the regression.
    I already have kids, she is snipped so no more kids. I need some energy and I feel like I am missing out on life and am not having the fun I feel I should with normal things like going to the zoo and such.

    any help would be appreciated.

    BTW my doc is a GP so he is probably not the man to talk to.
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    Well I hope the pink flamingo didn't scare anyone off.


    I guess I should also say, I'm looking to use things that will have a more permanent effect on muscle gain and fat loss, instead of once you stop taking it, you gain it right back and lose the muscle.
    I thought I would try a supplement T-Bomb 2, but from what every says on here it's crap, also felt like bad speed or bad acid. too jittery. I don't want to do things that will mess up my system permanently, but would like some input on raising my testosterone.

    I am trying to locate the are where I can find all the acronyms and abbreviations so I know what everyone is talking about. Especially this on cycle off cycle or bicycle.

    Again, Any input would be appreciated.
    Thanks.
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    Don't everyone reply at once please, I can't type that fast.

    So I started on 50mg of DHEA, and 100MG of 7-keto, and 1000mg of ZMA.
    I've been feeling much better and stronger, I also think I am starting to lose the belly, but I have gained a couple pounds and I believe it to be muscle.

    I've been hitting the weights heavy 3 days a week, and hiking a mountain here in San Diego called Cowles mountain 3 times a week as well for cardio and leg work. The mountain is 1600 ft high and 1.5-2 miles to get to the top on irregular terrain. Great workout.

    I should also say I'm not really a body builder perse' but I did like lifting at one time in my life and the shape it gave me, see picture one. Since getting older it just seemed like the things I loved doing were more of a chore, like surfing and scuba diving, lifting and hiking. I got my t4estosterone results back and the doctor says it within normal range, but I would like to elevate it.

    Testosterone results:
    total: 520
    normal = 250-1100 ng/dL

    Free Test: 74.5
    normal= 35-155 pg/mL

    TSH: 2.08
    normal= .40-4.5 mIU/L

    T4: 1.1
    normal= .8-1.8 ng/dL

    I assume the second measurements are thyroid. I don't really know what everything means yet, but I'm learning by reading all the stuff on here. Still don't know what all the acronyms are, but again, learning.

    I know I should get a more comprehensive test but this is my GP.

    I also ordered 2 bottles of 7-ke Topical from Taurus. From the sounds of the reviews it should help me to lose my VAT Fat. As you can see from my pictures I have a belly that I should get rid of.

    I also contacted Cenegenics to see what they had to offer. sent the doc my results and pictures and he said he could definitely help me, I'm sure of that too. but I can't afford the $4995 for diagnostic blood workup, and all day doctor visit for physical and counseling. The the 750(lowest price) for monthly prescriptions. I contacted another doc that was here in San Diego who does the same thing with blood work, but with one hour visit, and uses a compounding pharmacy to make bio-identical compounds. I asked why not just prescribe androgel is testosterone is called for instead of making it. Plus I heard bio-identicals were not as good for many things. Any thoughts on that?

    Anyway this is another post I hope to get some feed back from.
    Thanks.
    Larry
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    Another thing the Cenegenics Doctor said, since I told him the thing about my hobbies feeling like chores, he suspects maybe something else is going on besides possible low Test. But again only labs will reveal.

    I used to be on Androgel at one time from another doctor I saw regularly, but he is gone and no doctor I have talked to since will put me back on androgel, which made me feel awesome and in the gym was great.

    I should also mention that doctor was my Infectious disease doctor. I forgot to mention I am HIV positive(25 years, ex-IV User). We benefit from things like supplements like Androgel and HGH. But HGH is not covered my insurance and again, no doctor I have talked to will give me the Androgel.

    So I've been trying to learn how to either raise it naturally, or with supplements and topicals, don't want to do injections. And thinking about the anti-Aging stuff of clinics.

    The other supplements I am using are protein powder(whey Matrix), Glutamine, Tried T-Bomb but don't think that's really doing anything, Arginine, HMB, B-Complex, Multi Vitamin.

    I should also mention I have high blood pressure, and I am sure that losing the weight around the belly will helpw ith that. I've been taking Hawthorn extract for that as well as eating alot of celery to lower my BP, seems to be helping immensely. I feel alot better since I started those two things.

    I'm wondering if this thread should be moved to anti-aging? Who knows.
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    I only have one question, the one that everyone is dying to ask...

    Dude, you having twins or triplets? What a gut!!

    Just messin' with you bro.

    I'm on TRT if you have any questions regarding that.
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    I'm 60 and have been lifting for about 20 years. I feel great and I am in better shape than I was at 35. My test values, without supplementation is 248, really low. At 200 mg/day DHEA your estrogen levels are undoubtedly elevated. DHEA really does very little as far as elevating testosterone in men. My favorite all-round supplement for increasing test naturally is DAA but you must use some form of AI because it will also increase estrogen. Formestane is excellent. I also like Diesel Test Hardcore. It has DHEA included but it also includes DIM for E2 control. DTHC really helps in the strength department, the libido department and erection hardness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohninAZ View Post
    I only have one question, the one that everyone is dying to ask...

    Dude, you having twins or triplets? What a gut!!

    Just messin' with you bro.

    I'm on TRT if you have any questions regarding that.
    Triplets. hahaha...
    Yeah I know. It's disgusting. I hate it, it makes EVERYTHING difficult, tying my shoes, sex, breathing, everything.

    My wife was pregnant with our first child who is now almost 3, and I started to lose the "sympathy weight" by walking 10k a day. when she got pregnant with our second child I swore I wasn't going to put the weight back on. within one month I was back to the weight I was in the first pregnancy and then I exceeded that by at least 15 more pounds. I've been trying to lose it but it's been VERY hard. my Blood Pressure is up, libido is down, strength is way down but starting to come back up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm 60 and have been lifting for about 20 years. I feel great and I am in better shape than I was at 35. My test values, without supplementation is 248, really low. At 200 mg/day DHEA your estrogen levels are undoubtedly elevated. DHEA really does very little as far as elevating testosterone in men. My favorite all-round supplement for increasing test naturally is DAA but you must use some form of AI because it will also increase estrogen. Formestane is excellent. I also like Diesel Test Hardcore. It has DHEA included but it also includes DIM for E2 control. DTHC really helps in the strength department, the libido department and erection hardness.
    Well I reduced the amount of DHEA I am taking down to 50mg a day. I started reading this book called the DHEA Breakthrough and that's why I reduced my DHEA. I may also reduce it further. I need to do some saliva tests and have my doctor run some of the other tests I have heard about on here.

    Question The formestane, do you do that in cycles? or can yo do it all the time. I also remember one AI you could ONLY do in cycles as the effect were said to be permanent if used to much. What about the DAA or DTHC? cycle or all the time?

    As you can guess I am new and don't know much about steroids, or the other things but reading on here I am learning. can anyone direct me to a page of acronyms?
    Is there a brand of formestane I should be looking for?
    DaA = D-aspartic Acid, raises testosterone?
    DIM = deiindolymethane Lowers estradiol or estrogen?
    E2 = Estradiol

    I'll search for it. and try to figure it out. I really appreciate the feedback. Yes my libido and the "strength" of my erections has been way way low for a few years now.

    Thanks Much!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohninAZ View Post
    I only have one question, the one that everyone is dying to ask...

    Dude, you having twins or triplets? What a gut!!

    Just messin' with you bro.

    I'm on TRT if you have any questions regarding that.
    Oh yeah I'd not do injectable stuff but I'd love my doc to put me back on Androgel. that stuff made me feel whole again.
    Are you doing injections?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xwindowuser View Post
    Oh yeah I'd not do injectable stuff but I'd love my doc to put me back on Androgel. that stuff made me feel whole again.
    Are you doing injections?
    Yes, injections. They are easy and much more effective than any gel/cream.
    Why won't you inject, it's nothing really. Twice per week and you're done.
    With proper diet and training...it'll speed the burning of that body fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xwindowuser View Post
    I guess I should also say, I'm looking to use things that will have a more permanent effect on muscle gain and fat loss, instead of once you stop taking it, you gain it right back and lose the muscle.
    I thought I would try a supplement T-Bomb 2, but from what every says on here it's crap, also felt like bad speed or bad acid. too jittery. I don't want to do things that will mess up my system permanently, but would like some input on raising my testosterone.Thanks.
    Your testosterone levels and thyroid look good. Therefore your problems are most likely the result of high estrogen levels. You can get that tested through LabCorb if you want and you would need the sensitive test.

    Due to the HPTA (hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis) there is no such thing as a natural or over the counter substance that will permanently raise testosterone. The job of the HPTA is to sense elevated androgens and estrogens and turn off testosterone production to maintain homeostasis.

    Men produce estrogen by way of aromatase enzyme. Aromatase converts testosterone to estrogen because men need certain amounts for brain and heart health.
    Aromatase enzyme is made in fat cells. So, the more fat you have (especially around your abdomen for males), the more aromatase enzyme you make and the more your testosterone is being converted to estrogen.
    Elevated estrogen fosters an environment where your body wants to put more fat on and it also leads to sexual problems for males.

    So, you want to get estrogen under control and you want to lose the abdominal fat so you are producing less aromatase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    Your testosterone levels and thyroid look good. Therefore your problems are most likely the result of high estrogen levels. You can get that tested through LabCorb if you want and you would need the sensitive test.

    Due to the HPTA (hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis) there is no such thing as a natural or over the counter substance that will permanently raise testosterone. The job of the HPTA is to sense elevated androgens and estrogens and turn off testosterone production to maintain homeostasis.

    Men produce estrogen by way of aromatase enzyme. Aromatase converts testosterone to estrogen because men need certain amounts for brain and heart health.
    Aromatase enzyme is made in fat cells. So, the more fat you have (especially around your abdomen for males), the more aromatase enzyme you make and the more your testosterone is being converted to estrogen.
    Elevated estrogen fosters an environment where your body wants to put more fat on and it also leads to sexual problems for males.

    So, you want to get estrogen under control and you want to lose the abdominal fat so you are producing less aromatase.
    Thanks for the response!!!

    So I should do something that blocks the aromatase? specifically and "AI" like formestane, what about topical 7-keto? I just bought some topical 7-keto as what I saw looked good n the logs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohninAZ View Post
    Yes, injections. They are easy and much more effective than any gel/cream.
    Why won't you inject, it's nothing really. Twice per week and you're done.
    With proper diet and training...it'll speed the burning of that body fat.
    I guess if it's a prescribed thing it would be ok. I just associate injections with bad things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xwindowuser View Post
    I guess if it's a prescribed thing it would be ok. I just associate injections with bad things.
    Totally prescribed. No legal issues to worry about. At our age (I'm almost 43) we usually have wayyy too much to lose to be risking anything.
    The injections twice per week help keep your Test levels steady. I also inject HCG subcutaneously (to keep the balls working) and take Arimidex for Estrogen control. All prescribed. Feel like I'm 25 again, seriously. The gym workouts are incredible and I want to talk to anything in a skirt!! (married with a family though)
    I've also cut close to 50 pounds since the start of the year with proper diet and training (only started injecting about 2 months ago). My body acts like a furnace just burning that fat.
    I'm 6'3" 255 now with a 38" waist. I was a little over 300 with a 48" waist on January 1st!! Weak and lethargic too. No more!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohninAZ View Post
    Totally prescribed. No legal issues to worry about. At our age (I'm almost 43) we usually have wayyy too much to lose to be risking anything.
    The injections twice per week help keep your Test levels steady. I also inject HCG subcutaneously (to keep the balls working) and take Arimidex for Estrogen control. All prescribed. Feel like I'm 25 again, seriously. The gym workouts are incredible and I want to talk to anything in a skirt!! (married with a family though)
    I've also cut close to 50 pounds since the start of the year with proper diet and training (only started injecting about 2 months ago). My body acts like a furnace just burning that fat.
    I'm 6'3" 255 now with a 38" waist. I was a little over 300 with a 48" waist on January 1st!! Weak and lethargic too. No more!!
    Both my doctors are Tards. My old doctor who put me on Test to begin with was a DO and did all sorts of alternative stuff, and I never felt better. When he left to teach, I had to go to these two guys, and neither will put me on Test because my levels are "Normal". Maybe Normal for a 47 yr old. but I want it boosted up so I can get out of the lethargic state, and start enjoying life again.
    Lame.

    Thanks for the response.
    BTW, how did you convince your doctor to put you on those things?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xwindowuser View Post
    Both my doctors are Tards. My old doctor who put me on Test to begin with was a DO and did all sorts of alternative stuff, and I never felt better. When he left to teach, I had to go to these two guys, and neither will put me on Test because my levels are "Normal". Maybe Normal for a 47 yr old. but I want it boosted up so I can get out of the lethargic state, and start enjoying life again.
    Lame.

    Thanks for the response.
    BTW, how did you convince your doctor to put you on those things?
    Most doctors are pains in the ass. You would have to go through many tests. Experimenting with small dosages of cream etc. Very time consuming. To convince them that you need injections and can do them at home is tough, but can be done. The positive is that most likely (not in all cases) your health insurance will cover your TRT.
    Me, I went the clinic route. These clinics have a doctor on staff and are much more liberal with your "T" numbers They will also put you on HCG, Adex etc.
    The downside is that it's not "cheap" and they don't take insurance.
  

  
 

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