Older guy thinking of prohormones ...

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    Older guy thinking of prohormones ...


    Hi, I'm 42 and been hitting the weights hard for nearly three years after stopping for a couple (shoulder and elbow issues) Have perhaps 7 or so years weight lifting behind me. I'm a roid and PH virgin and have been thinking about some mild to moderate strength PH for cutting and strength gain. Muscle mass gain is not a priority, but I won't shrug it off.

    Considering the Ortasan-A/Furazan or 11-OXO types, likely solo towards the higher end of dosages for max effect. Not too keen on stacking just yet as I prefer to avoid Methyls right now for a first time run. Though I'm open to what makes sense. I've read tons of FAQs and articles the last two weeks, I'm aware of cycle support and PCT.

    Usual supps include Creatine, lots of BCAAs: 8:1:1, Beta Alanine and a host of Stims I try here and there: ECA, straight Caff, MRM Driven, White Flood, and currently Jack3D. Not all in a stack of course. Fish oils, vits and mins.

    In the gym five days a week - 75-90 mins, usually combination of mainly compound movements and finishing with 15-25 mins of cardio- steady and Hiit. I prefer lifting heavy, but not too much to risk form or further injury. I really would like to break some plateaus, so strength gain would be great.

    Nutrition is about 98% clean and controlled, except for the occasional slice of pizza. Typically keep cals to around 2400-2500. I could go lower, but I don't want to lose the muscle I got the last few years nor slow down my metabolism.

    In a similar situation, would you consider a PH or two to cut better, by lowering cals further and hopefully holding onto the muscles or just avoid them, perhaps for now till I get my BF% lower, which I do have a lot to lose - currently around 22-24%.

    Feedback would be Awesome!

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    Pro-hormones are not worth the trouble at your age. You risk shutting down your normal HPTA functioning if you're not careful. PCT sucks and the reduced libido keeps me from doing any more PHs. My GF hates PCT time.

    However, Epistane would be a good one to start with.

    Make sure you're doing everything else right, which it looks like you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctay View Post
    In a similar situation, would you consider a PH or two to cut better, by lowering cals further and hopefully holding onto the muscles or just avoid them, perhaps for now till I get my BF% lower, which I do have a lot to lose - currently around 22-24%.

    Feedback would be Awesome!
    add cardio, clip calories a litte. get bodyfat down to the 15ish range before bothering with the prohormones.
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    Both good responses and what I'm looking for, thanks. If I were going PH it would be rather conservative to see how the body handles it. PCT would be Nolva, rather than something OTC. Doing plenty of cardio, which I hate BTW, forgot to mention my 4x week morning runs. Just want to make sure I dont eat up the muscle I have. Took a couple years to pack on, but the fat came on with it, so cutting worries me of the opposite effect of eating muscle with the fat. Anyway ... perhaps I'll just stick to ECAs early morning, Jack3d/White Flood midday pre-workout and wait till later in the year.

    Anyone is free to pop in and change my mind though ... haha.
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    I'm 61 and I still run some the milder ph's from time to time. If the proper precautions are taken libido and shut down are not real problems.

    P.S. I would avoid Epi at your age. Epi targets AR beta receptors which have an antiprolific effect on the prostate. You actually want to target AR alpha receptors. These are the ones that cause the prostate to grow.
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    You could always use some Clen, as it's anti-catabolic and slightly anabolic.
    You will workout harder and get stronger too.

    Too much cardio, like anything is bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctay View Post
    If I were going PH it would be rather conservative to see how the body handles it. PCT would be Nolva, rather than something OTC.
    honestly, I've never thought this approach made sense. Do a cycle that will actually reach your goal, instead of dipping your feet in. Because if you just test the waters, that guarantees you'll do another cycle if it doesn't all go to hell. Whereas if you have a reasonable goal a single cycle could hit, then you may as well take whatever would help you reach it. Also, outside of the legality issue, a plain testosterone cycle is likely a smarter move particularly being on the older side.
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    I'm 61 and I still run some the milder ph's from time to time. If the proper precautions are taken libido and shut down are not real problems.
    I have run them too, and I like Epi. But still always felt like crap in PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    honestly, I've never thought this approach made sense. Do a cycle that will actually reach your goal, instead of dipping your feet in.
    Totally get your point. No sense doing it if the end result (or goal) is minimal. Can't learn to swim in shallow waters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    You could always use some Clen, as it's anti-catabolic and slightly anabolic.
    You will workout harder and get stronger too.

    Too much cardio, like anything is bad.
    Now Clen is interesting and could be something to either cycle or alternate with my ECA, but I read some years ago it was linked to enlarging the heart or damaging valves. Need to do some more reading ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    P.S. I would avoid Epi at your age. Epi targets AR beta receptors which have an antiprolific effect on the prostate. You actually want to target AR alpha receptors. These are the ones that cause the prostate to grow.
    Out of curiosity, is this PH Classification I found the same you are referring to:

    Class I = binds to androgen receptor
    Class II = does not

    Class I

    Boldenone based - 1,4AD & Bold
    Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
    Dienolone based - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
    Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based - Epistane & Clones (like Havoc & so on so forth)
    Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - Pheraplex & clones
    Testosterone
    DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

    Class II (healthier for the prostate?)

    Masteron (Dromostanolone) based - Superdrol & Clones
    Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosteron e) based - Halodrol & Clones
    Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
    Winstrol (stanozolol) based - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
    Furazabol (miotolan) based - Furazadrol etc
    Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
    Clostebol based - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
    4-AD
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    good info here guys thanks
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    I'm 45 and have dabbled in what's out there. Why avoid methyls? IMO liver issues are overblown at reasonable dosages, and besides, non- methyls still adversely affect lipids and BP (which are the REAL concerns at our age). Superdrol and it's clones are still the best bang for the buck as long as your cycles are short and you don't chase the "more is better" dosing philosophy. Read Unreal machines Superdrol post on this site and go for a four week, 10-20mg ride!!
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    Will likely look into a Orastan-A (Katanadrol 2.0?) stacked with Tren, Epi, Sdrol or Hdrol. Ora on the higher end, Methyls on the lower to mid dose, perhaps. Need to get everything in order and will likely start in mid to late April.

    Like to get down another pant size or two before going the PH route. Not sure if doing PH now is a great idea and may only add to the stockiness I'm actually trying to drop. It's more of the cutting aspect I was looking for, but as several have pointed out, that's not the best goal for doing PH.

    For now, I've got a friend who brought me some Isa-Test and Erase to stack. Appears to have worked decent for him adding strength and supporting his cut. I'll try that through March alongside my ECA and Jack3d and re-evaluate from there.
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    I'm 49 but I do not feel old at all.

    There's a few options you might consider ...

    1. Ostarine - Not a steroid, not a pro-hormone. I'm on it now (fifth week) and I have to say, after I boosted the dosage up to around 35mgs a day ... it's working awesomely. Man, I am getting larger and fighting to keep my weight down now because I'm just trying to recomp here. Strength is way up. I don't feel shutdown at all - my libido is still the raging brush fire of barbarian sweat and agression that it's always been! I will run this compound again many times in the future - ZERO SIDES so far. One caution though - it's still a new compound so who knows what unseen things it can be doing. Whatever - I've lived a long and bombastic life so I'm living it up at this point!

    2. Epistane - Yeah sure - it'll shut you down over the long haul ... so don't do a cycle for longer than 4 weeks. I noticed results immediately with this stuff - first day I used it ... it was AWESOME!! I only did a short two-week cycle, was not shutdown in the least at the end of it - and gained about 7 pounds if I recall correctly - and even got a bit leaner.

    3. Androhard - isn't it a pro-hormone? Well, it converts to DHT in the body but many describe it as very mild and it's non-methylated.

    At my age - I focus on compounds that I can run for short periods of time that will either have no impact on my libido (like Ostarine) or actually enhance it (like Epistane and, from what I've heard - Androhard). I don't stay on cycle too long - any shrinkage of my love spuds is totally unacceptable. I'm not worried about having kids but I DO LOVE SEX and like to have it often.

    Also - for PCT consider Torem - it doesn't kill my libido and just feels great to run. I almost consider running it "stand alone" - it will increase testosterone. Great stuff and makes easy PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    I'm 49 but I do not feel old at all.
    Ostarine sounds interesting. I am going to have to look into that.

    I feel a boost from 10mg of Epi on the very first dose. Never considered running it for just two weeks.
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    Thanks. Epi is on my short list. I was actually thinking of a 3-4 week cycle versus anything more. Seems like many PHs take a few weeks to start showing results, hence the 6-8 week cycles. If Epi starts quick, a nice 3 or so weeks should do the trick. I read Toremifene may be better than Nolva, but Nolva is the gold standard. Worth more reading. Can't find too much about Ostarine, particularly availability, but I just starting looking. Lots of good stuff to consider ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Ostarine sounds interesting. I am going to have to look into that.

    I feel a boost from 10mg of Epi on the very first dose. Never considered running it for just two weeks.
    My first dose of Epi was on my "squat and deadlift" day. It was absolutely awesome - and only 10mg.

    I've considered the possibility of "pulsing" Epi ... ONE DAY PER WEEK (Squat Day) ... LOL

    That's my hardest day - I need the strength to be there - and the focus to be there too because at my age ... one false move with a squat and I'd be on the ground screaming ... "Help! I've fallen and can't get up!!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    I've considered the possibility of "pulsing" Epi ... ONE DAY PER WEEK (Squat Day) ... LOL
    I have done the same thing with SuperDrone. The longest I could take that was for a week before I felt so lethargic. Great strength gains, terrible laziness.
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    I'm 41 and a virgin sticker i,m running test enth 500mg a week . Today will be week 2.5 not quite sure it,s hitting me yet but next week i should be in full effect.Omg tho the pain after stick is really bad on day 2 and 3 after stick..
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr eddy View Post
    I'm 41 and a virgin sticker i,m running test enth 500mg a week . Today will be week 2.5 not quite sure it,s hitting me yet but next week i should be in full effect.Omg tho the pain after stick is really bad on day 2 and 3 after stick..
    ah the beauty of script test. never ever the slightest discomfort post inj
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    At your age, i'd recommend a GHRP-6 (growth hormone releasing peptide) and CJC-1295 (growth hormone releasing hormone) cycle.

    It's MUCH cheaper than HGH, and more effective. GHRP & GHRH are synergistic (think 2+2 = 10) and utilizes your body's natural GH, where HGH you're just shooting exogenous GH.

    You'd see a ton of benefits from this. Better sleep, anti-aging properties, better joints, etc.

    The more I read about GHRP & GHRH cycles - the more I think everyone should be on them....I have yet to see a downside. And there are much less side effects from GH than steroids (and the side effects from GH takes YEARS to develop - IE gh gut) and you don't need a PCT.

    That being said you can use GHRP & GHRH while on a cycle of PH/AAS as well as carry it into PCT to help solidify and potentially increase gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    At your age, i'd recommend a GHRP-6 (growth hormone releasing peptide) and CJC-1295 (growth hormone releasing hormone) .
    Seems most popular with the life extension folks. Think the issue with me lies in the availability and delivery, not a needle kinda guy. Also, it seems most folks using also run it along side PHs or other gear. Seems like alot of stuff going on. Likely beyond what I want to invest in at this time, perhaps in a few years.

    Now, the SARMs look a bit interesting, particularly S-4 and Osta. I'm taking all the info into consideration and wont directly dismiss anything, just need to plan things out right and make sure I got all the right support on the ready.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctay View Post
    Now, the SARMs look a bit interesting, particularly S-4 and Osta.
    I am going to place on an order for some Ostarine.

    I too, am not a needle kind of guy, as in my early childhood, I was getting way too many of them stuck in me. Then back in the mid 80s, on my one and only AAS cycle I developed an abscess in my glute from one of the shots I gave to myself. We didn't know anything about PCT back then and my experience after stopping the cycle was nothing short of disastrous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctay View Post
    Seems most popular with the life extension folks. Think the issue with me lies in the availability and delivery, not a needle kinda guy. Also, it seems most folks using also run it along side PHs or other gear. Seems like alot of stuff going on. Likely beyond what I want to invest in at this time, perhaps in a few years.

    Now, the SARMs look a bit interesting, particularly S-4 and Osta. I'm taking all the info into consideration and wont directly dismiss anything, just need to plan things out right and make sure I got all the right support on the ready.
    you can get 2-3 months worth for less than $200 and is easily available online and is not illegal/regulated by the FDA. And you do use a needle...but it's an insulin needle and a sub-q injection...not IM. You can definitely run it solo and still see some nice benefits from it.

    and definitely look into osta. got two bottles....50mg/ml @ 15ml per bottle for 100.
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    LOL ... I'd have no problem doing "needles" but there's not a chance in hell I'd be able to hide that from little Mrs. Honda. Orals are one thing ... but most people not associated with this lifestyle look at needles as hard core drug abuse.

    I'm sure she'd freak out.
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    I have found that 4 me the DHT compounds actually enhance my libido.BUT if u worry about hairline guys shy away from these but i have run them at least half a dozen times with no issues
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    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    LOL ... I'd have no problem doing "needles" but there's not a chance in hell I'd be able to hide that from little Mrs. Honda.
    Yep, have no desire to explain why I have insulin needles delivered to the house, being that she tends to open all the nice packages. Tabs can be explained away, but ampules and syringes is just asking for a world of hurt. Don't care to get calls from family and "people who care" worried about me, because no matter what I say, it will spread like the plague.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbumpkin View Post
    I have found that 4 me the DHT compounds actually enhance my libido.BUT if u worry about hairline guys shy away from these but i have run them at least half a dozen times with no issues
    Which compounds are you referring to?

    No hairline issues here, as I don't have one. I have a tough time keeping up with my g/f, so libido is very important.
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    I took dplex and was a horny ass by end of second week and had baseball bat between my legs lol
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