Do older men get excess breast/fat tissue?

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    Do older men get excess breast/fat tissue?


    Seems like older guys are more likely to have "man boobs," but is there a reason behind this, or just lack of exercise?

    Maybe it's got something to do with increasing estrogen as a male ages?

    If so, would an anti-estro supplement be the best way to deal with this, along with a lower calorie diet?

    Thoughts?

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    It's because they have very little natural test production, so even a little bit of estrogen can cause gyno (same scenario as being young and post-cycle without a SERM). And they also tend to have high estrogen levels because they're fatter, and vice versa. Natural aging is a vicious cycle...
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    what you can do is make sure your liver is in optimum condition so it can clear the E . No drugs , no alcohol and trim up so you have no excess fat especially around the waist.

    Consider grape seed extract , reservatrol , zinc -all these help with estrogen management and eat your veggies -broccoli , brussel sprouts, cauliflower. All these have a compound called indole -3 -carbinol which also help with estrogen management .Google it , that will tell you more .
    Remember whilest your taking in toxins such as drugs alcohol , the liver is spending time detoxifying instead of clearing estrogen -im npt suggesting you are consuming either of those but its a point to remember
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    Thanks for the info about keeping the liver available to deal with estrogen. I will admit that I occasionally drink some Bud Lights, but no drugs or other alcohol of any kind are consumed.

    Good info, though. I will take your suggestions to heart!

    BTW - I do not have a big problem with this, but looking at my father, I am wondering if part of it is genetic. If so, I want to nip this in the bud immediately, before something serious happens.

    I also notice as I age that my pecs are more difficult to build (muscle). It also seems like the skin in the chest area is more loose, which will not look good in the future if the trend continues!
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    Since you don't give your age here or in your profile I'm not sure where you are on the bodily decay profile LOL, but there is one alternative I've been using for many years. I use all-natural, bio-identical progesterone and it has been great in holding down my Estro and inversely upping my testosterone and by extension it helps in controlling my BPH and my PSA. Now that I am on Test Cypionate injections for 4 months my docs at the VA review my Estro and tell me they want me to keep on with the same protocol. I use Progesta-Care from over at Vitacost, about $18 for a 2 month supply. FWIW I don't have any problems with building more chest muscle and strength. Even at 69 I have almost no loose skin and am still growing. It's simply a question of combining the right training, rest, diet and long term committment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Since you don't give your age here or in your profile I'm not sure where you are on the bodily decay profile LOL, but there is one alternative I've been using for many years. I use all-natural, bio-identical progesterone and it has been great in holding down my Estro and inversely upping my testosterone and by extension it helps in controlling my BPH and my PSA. Now that I am on Test Cypionate injections for 4 months my docs at the VA review my Estro and tell me they want me to keep on with the same protocol. I use Progesta-Care from over at Vitacost, about $18 for a 2 month supply. FWIW I don't have any problems with building more chest muscle and strength. Even at 69 I have almost no loose skin and am still growing. It's simply a question of combining the right training, rest, diet and long term committment.
    im on trt also but never really understood the use of progesterone , please can you explain .I always thought it should be avoided in men
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    Sorry about the age thing - I am 53. Was a competitive bodybuilder (natural) in the early 90's, then got hooked on golf and only worked out now and then.

    Last winter, I went to the gym to "stay fit" for golf, and found myself working out more and more - much like in the old days. I gained muscle and strength, and it was a lot of fun. When the weather got nice, though, I went back to golf.

    Well, back in September, I got the itch again, and I've been at it 3-4/week since then. Have tried some of the popular supplements like Jack3d for workout energy, and the Titanium/Erase stack. Of course I take a good multivitamin, and a quality whey protein powder (ON) following my workouts. In fact, I just bought some Casein protein to drink before bed.

    My sex drive is still strong - no problems there, and I feel as young as I did 30 years ago. I eat fairly clean and do not carry much bodyfat (for a 53-year-old!). However, maybe the loose/saggy chest skin is caused by calorie intake, as opposed to an overabundance of estrogen.

    Thanks for all of your suggestions. They seem to point me toward a doctor who would get me some kind of "help" if my bloodwork warranted it. Truth is - I'm not sure if it would! I'm not sure how to approach him about it, anyway . . . "Doc, I'm having some trouble in the bedroom (a lie). Do you think you could check out my testosterone level?" Or "Doc, I'm working out heavy again like I used to, but just not getting the results. Could you run some tests that will indicate if I qualify for some additional help in the muscle-building department?" LOL

    Who knows? Maybe that would work.

    Thanks again for your help. I appreciate the information.
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    By the time men reach 55, they usually produce more estrogen then testosterone, more estrogen than their wives. A we age our test goes down and our estro up but little understood is that progesterone, the precursor to test also goes down. They say progesterone is the chief inhibitor of 5AR which converts out test to DHT. Since I am well past 55 LOL and also getting 200mg of test cyp injected in my butt every week, I am extremely concerned that I do not have a large estrogen domination problem, a uncontrolled BPH problem and a higher than normal chance of contracting Prostate Cancer. All natural, bio-identical progesterone has a proven history of takng care of my above concerns. Its nice that to me, just my personal experience, but progesterone also increases my libido as good or better than Epi and Form did when I used them. I know that using Progesterone is not an accepted protocol among most here on AM, but from what I have read, from what I have experienced and from what my VA Urologist tells me, I am going to continue using this forever. I use test cyp to raise my levels to those of my youth, likewise I take creatine to reinforce my recovery ability, so to do I try by using 11 mgs of progesterone to raise my levels so that I can maintain a healthy equilibrium between test, estro and progest. FWIW while I use the test cyp I also use nettle root to lower my SHBG and raise my free test. To me it's kind of a three pronged stack, test, progest and nettle root that has proven effective in the gym and in the bedroom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    By the time men reach 55, they usually produce more estrogen then testosterone, more estrogen than their wives. A we age our test goes down and our estro up but little understood is that progesterone, the precursor to test also goes down. They say progesterone is the chief inhibitor of 5AR which converts out test to DHT. Since I am well past 55 LOL and also getting 200mg of test cyp injected in my butt every week, I am extremely concerned that I do not have a large estrogen domination problem, a uncontrolled BPH problem and a higher than normal chance of contracting Prostate Cancer. All natural, bio-identical progesterone has a proven history of takng care of my above concerns. Its nice that to me, just my personal experience, but progesterone also increases my libido as good or better than Epi and Form did when I used them. I know that using Progesterone is not an accepted protocol among most here on AM, but from what I have read, from what I have experienced and from what my VA Urologist tells me, I am going to continue using this forever. I use test cyp to raise my levels to those of my youth, likewise I take creatine to reinforce my recovery ability, so to do I try by using 11 mgs of progesterone to raise my levels so that I can maintain a healthy equilibrium between test, estro and progest. FWIW while I use the test cyp I also use nettle root to lower my SHBG and raise my free test. To me it's kind of a three pronged stack, test, progest and nettle root that has proven effective in the gym and in the bedroom.
    interesting read. progest i-how do you take it -by mouth or apply to the skin ? Your nettle root extract -is that in BB supplement

    what are the reasons for progest not being accepted ?

    sorry to keep prying for info but i like to know as much as poss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    interesting read. progest i-how do you take it -by mouth or apply to the skin ? Your nettle root extract -is that in BB supplement

    what are the reasons for progest not being accepted ?

    sorry to keep prying for info but i like to know as much as poss.
    The All-natural Progesterone I take is a cream dispensed in 11 mg doses. I apply it to either my chest or legs sometimes right to my crown jewels. I originally used Anabolic Extreme but find I get good results with the much less expensive Nettle Root Extract from Vitacost.com. I don't know for sure the reasons that Progesterone has never been accepted by the AM and other communities. It could be that many guys see it as a women's hormone just as women see testosterone as a man's hormone. In fact both sexes have both, just in different quantitites.
    Since I have very high BPH but no Prostate Cancer I have stayed up on means of managing my prostate health and Pr. has a good track record of cutting down my E. Other more expensive alternatives are marketed heavily but this is relatively easier and less expensive IMO.

    A pretty good explaination of the Progesterone question was raised years ago in an article in Metamorphosis by Drs Ullis and Shackman in their "Contrarian Endocrinology". What follows is excerpted from there:

    "Progesterone for Men
    Once again, I am not crazy. I know that most of you think of progesterone as an "evil" catabolic and fattening hormone. What many of you may not remember is that the extremely popular anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate (aka Deca Durabolin or nortestosterone) is in fact classified as a progestin (hormone with progesterone-like activity)! In addition, many progestins given to women in birth control pills and other drugs such as norgestrel and norethidrone are classified as 19-nor-testosterone or 19 nor- progesterone derivatives. Eastern German female Olympic athletes were known to have taken large quantities of these nor-testosterone derivatives to build muscle with the notorious masculinizing side effects that was obvious to all Olympic observers. Modern Olympic testing can now distinguish the difference between nor-progesterone and nor-testosterone derivatives. Since birth control pills arenít yet on the list of drugs banned from competition, these "women" were able to pass all drug testing without any worries. Of course, I donít suggest you raid your girlfriends birth control pill case in order to make yourself "feel like Deca". Recent studies at UCLA (9) have shown that different types of birth control pills have different androgenic capacity and can change the Olympic doping standard of testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of six to one with an increase of that ratio.

    Are you confused yet? How can one of the most manly of anabolic steroids such as Deca Durabolin be considered a female hormone? How can female birth control pills be used as anabolic steroids? The simple answer to this question is that progesterone is best not considered as a female hormone, but as a hormone with properties somewhere in the middle between testosterone and estrogen. You can tweak the progesterone molecule slightly one way and have a hormone that is androgenic, or tweak it another way and be less androgenic or become more neutral in effect like the natural progesterone in the human body. Progesterone has its reputation as a female hormone due to its role in promoting pregnancy. But natural progesterone is still present in the male and also plays an important role in male physiology, but it has not yet been clearly elucidated. It should be noted that the "masculine" hormone nor-testosterone, that is the basis for the anabolic steroid Deca Durabolin, is actually found in highest concentrations in pregnant women (10).

    So how can progesterone like molecules make me big or improve my athletic performance? Are large doses of Deca what you are referring to when you talk about "progesterone for men"? The answer is that nortestosterone drugs and prohormones have disadvantages over testosterone for use in hormone replacement therapy and in athletics / bodybuilding. The main reason nortestosterone is so popular is because of its lower androgenicity. It competes with testosterone for the 5-alpha reductase enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT and instead converts to dihydronortestosterone which is much less androgenic. Therefore you are less likely to experience side effects often associated with testosterone such as acne, hair loss, etc.

    However, some people donít know about nor understand the drawback of nortestosterone. For one thing, it can drastically lower libido. This is not surprising since other progestin based drugs are given to sex offenders to purposely lower their libidos. For male hormone replacement therapy, this can make nortestosterone a big no-no. Most men considering hormone replacement therapy are already suffering from a loss of libido, and nortestosterone can be almost like a castration agent for them. In addition, nortestosterone has a lower aromatization rate than testosterone. Since estrogen can raise HDL levels while androgens tend to lower HDL, this lack of estrogen from nortestosterone can cause HDL levels to drop further than when on testosterone. While temporarily low HDL levels may not be a big concern for a healthy young athlete, this is obviously a bigger concern for older men or those with heart disease risk factors.

    Instead of using nortestosterone for hormone replacement therapy, I recommend a combination of natural testosterone and pulses of natural progesterone when testosterone is used. Progesterone, like nortestosterone, competes with testosterone for the 5-alpha reductase enzyme. A combination of testosterone/progesterone could allow for the benefits of increased testosterone while keeping DHT levels balanced. The concept is to help maintain a natural and youthful testosterone/estrogen/progesterone ratios throughout your lifetime. I believe a proper balance is the key to a healthy libido, prostate, and cardiovascular system.

    While synthetic progesterone derivatives have been used to lower libido in men (1, 5), I believe that natural progesterone may in fact have the opposite effects in some men. I have heard patient anecdotes and from other medical doctors saying that application of a natural progesterone cream to the scrotum can increase libido and enhance orgasmic pleasure in some men.. I believe that just as high doses of synthetic progesterone derivatives can lower libido, so can low levels of natural progesterone. Natural progesterone can have a calming effect on the nervous system and may help those men who are "rapid ejaculators" or have other anxiety related sexual problems. Restoring or pulsing progesterone may enhance libido, and sexual function. While large doses of synthetic progestins may cause you to get fatter or lose muscle, the role of progesterone in increasing body temperature has been well studied in women (3) and may help bring back resting metabolic rate to a more youthful levels in men as well. Progesterone has the benefit of boosting metabolism but too much can lead to high insulin levels which would likely cancel out any benefits of increased metabolism."
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    dutch-you are a genuine 'wealth of information'.


    i learn something every time i read your posts. thanks for being part of this forum and sharing with us.


    btw-10000 iu vit d3 is working well-thanks.
    tom
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    With all due respect to Dutchman ( ), the main argument from that article I got was that Progesterone will mitigate some of the Test---->DHT conversion (via less 5-alpha reductase activity).

    While I can appreciate why this would be an appealing appoach for many, DHT is not exactly "bad" for you. While excessive DHT can be deleterious (BPH), it also elevates libido and acts as a mild anti-E.

    I could also argue that lately, science has begin to accept that prostate cancer can also be caused via excessive estrogen! Considering this, is decreasing natty DHT levels sensible?

    For Dutchman, this protocol has obviously proven itself and for him, a sincere Congrats

    But for many, I submit to you that jumping on progesterone and praying for the best is irresponsible.
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    I should have added that IF your goal is to "control" DHT, then why not take a DHT-modulating/prostate-protection based supplement as opposed to adding another hormone you need to attempt to balance?


    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    With all due respect to Dutchman ( ), the main argument from that article I got was that Progesterone will mitigate some of the Test---->DHT conversion (via less 5-alpha reductase activity).

    While I can appreciate why this would be an appealing appoach for many, DHT is not exactly "bad" for you. While excessive DHT can be deleterious (BPH), it also elevates libido and acts as a mild anti-E.

    I could also argue that lately, science has begin to accept that prostate cancer can also be caused via excessive estrogen! Considering this, is decreasing natty DHT levels sensible?

    For Dutchman, this protocol has obviously proven itself and for him, a sincere Congrats

    But for many, I submit to you that jumping on progesterone and praying for the best is irresponsible.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
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    I'm 49 and I don't have moobies.

    I've seen a lot of guys who do though - but not many who are in the gym who are lifting heavy with compound moves.

    I think it's due to decreased test to estrogen ratio - but ... I'm not sure.

    Lifting heavy actually increases testosterone. If more older men went out and lifted heavy - you'd see fewer "moobies" out there. But I think you have to start at a relatively young age and keep it up throughout your life. Once you got "moobies" there's not much option short of extra-natural means to get rid of them.

    A lot of people put a lot of stock in supplements and what not. I really have never taken anything but protein, creatine and lately NO supplements. I do "cycle" my weightlifting and cardio ratios though - and I notice that when I'm less cardio / more poundage in the gym - my libido goes through the roof, and my 52 year old wife gets a bit annoyed with it eventually!
  

  
 

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